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Acting like that to your employees is a quick way to make them disappear. Apple was Apple, nothing was going to make them leave, no matter how much of an asshol

Acting like that to your employees is a quick way to make them disappear. Apple was Apple, nothing was going to make them leave, no matter how much of an asshole Jobs was. I would listen to a CEO/Managers tirade once, before I started looking elsewhere. It's only a job.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
Good. If someone (like Jobs) want to create the best product(s) out there, either you Be Better, or find somewhere where anything less than the best is good enough. Shape up or ship out.
- overcast 10y ago
  That's not how the world works. Number one reason for employees leaving, is management. Just because it worked for Apple, absolutely does not mean it works for all companies. Else that would just be the norm, and we wouldn't be talking about it. Being a tyrant, and ruling with an iron fist, does NOT work historically.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    What everyone forgets when they're trying to talk about how to be as effective as Jobs is that yes, he was a tryant ruling with an iron fist, he was a crazy asshole, etc, but he was also right, almost all the time. He knew what he wanted and he knew what would work and he knew what what in his power to create, and he made sure it got created. People try to replicate his management style without having that last quality. If you're a madman tyrant asshole and your product is OnLive[1], you're just a madman tyrant asshole with a failed product because you didn't realize that your company's problems are far outside your scope of control. If you're a madman tyrant asshole and your product instantly destroys two of the only three major smartphone OSes on the market at the time, you're Steve Jobs. [1](I'm just picking on them as a failed startup, I have no idea what their CEO's management style was.)
    - Swizec 10y ago
      Otherwise known as survivorship bias. Jobs was an asshole etc who happened to turn out ti be right. It's virtually impossible to know in advance which asshole will be proven right and which won't.
      - mgkimsal 10y ago
        More specifically, he wasn't right because he was an asshole or tyrant. I've run in to folks who worshipped at the Jobs alter, and adopted his personality, in the thought that this leads to success (one person basically said it in so many words - 'it if worked for him...'). Jobs' legacy on the behaviour of so many future companies will be an interesting one, because some people only looked at that one side, and ran with it.
        Swizec 10y ago
        As somebody who used to be like that: startups/businesses are hard enough without burning employees out and people hating you. Your job is to remove negative factors, not create them.
        pacaro 10y ago
        This happened within Microsoft too, a lot of engineers who aspired to be Dave Cutler thought that they should start by acting like him.
      - user837387 10y ago
        He was an asshole that happened to be right several times in his career. First with Apple, then with Pixar, then again with Next and Apple. Your are being disingenuous by trying to paint it like he was just lucky.
        Swizec 10y ago
        I'm not saying he got lucky, I'm saying it's obvious he was right in hindsight and impossible to tell in foresight.
- wyager 10y ago
  Anyone of particularly high quality is capable of finding work elsewhere without much difficulty, so high-quality employees are actually less likely to put up with crazy tirades.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    In other words, if you want to hire and retain the best talent, try not to be so much of an asshole. This "my way or the highway" attitude is how companies turn into shitty little fiefdoms filled with incompetent losers lorded over by a bunch of goons.
  - GuiA 10y ago
    Anyone of particularly high quality isn't going to be happy with 90% of the work available elsewhere. When you're at the top, you don't want to be managed by scrubs.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      That's a bold claim. There are plenty of high performers who would rather be managed with dignity by a "scrub" than be berated by an genius asshole.
user837387 10y ago
No, if the employee keeps not reaching his potential then it is right to call him out on this. Do this only if the employee is not carrying his own weight when you know he is capable of more, otherwise just fire him. Of course, if your manager is being an abusive asshole then leave to another company. Also, if you have to do this more than once then just fire the guy. I agree, never take abuse from anybody.
- overcast 10y ago
  Sitting someone down personally, and explaining the situation with respect. Is a lot different then screaming at someone, telling them they are the single point of failure, swearing and calling them out in front of their peers.
  - user837387 10y ago
    I know what you are saying, but reality is reality. He was an asshole to everybody. I don't like assholes but he definitely got things done.
    - overcast 10y ago
      He got things done, because he actually knew what he was doing, but happened to be an asshole. For every one of those, there is a million other assholes that will sink the ship.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    Of course, there's a place for calling someone out in front of his peers, too. Part of the art of leadership is to do that when necessary (because if not, one's failing to do what's necessary), but only when necessary.
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    You're fighting back even though you seem to agree with user837387. In order to facilitate continuing to argue, you seem to be shifting the goalposts so that you can continue flagging the behavior as bad behavior: OP said: "looked at you and very directly said in a very loud and stern voice" Your edit: "screaming at someone, swearing and calling them out in front of their peers"

Cthulhu_ 10y ago

Good. If someone (like Jobs) want to create the best product(s) out there, either you Be Better, or find somewhere where anything less than the best is good enough. Shape up or ship out.

overcast 10y ago
That's not how the world works. Number one reason for employees leaving, is management. Just because it worked for Apple, absolutely does not mean it works for all companies. Else that would just be the norm, and we wouldn't be talking about it. Being a tyrant, and ruling with an iron fist, does NOT work historically.
- freehunter 10y ago
  What everyone forgets when they're trying to talk about how to be as effective as Jobs is that yes, he was a tryant ruling with an iron fist, he was a crazy asshole, etc, but he was also right, almost all the time. He knew what he wanted and he knew what would work and he knew what what in his power to create, and he made sure it got created. People try to replicate his management style without having that last quality. If you're a madman tyrant asshole and your product is OnLive[1], you're just a madman tyrant asshole with a failed product because you didn't realize that your company's problems are far outside your scope of control. If you're a madman tyrant asshole and your product instantly destroys two of the only three major smartphone OSes on the market at the time, you're Steve Jobs. [1](I'm just picking on them as a failed startup, I have no idea what their CEO's management style was.)
  - Swizec 10y ago
    Otherwise known as survivorship bias. Jobs was an asshole etc who happened to turn out ti be right. It's virtually impossible to know in advance which asshole will be proven right and which won't.
    - mgkimsal 10y ago
      More specifically, he wasn't right because he was an asshole or tyrant. I've run in to folks who worshipped at the Jobs alter, and adopted his personality, in the thought that this leads to success (one person basically said it in so many words - 'it if worked for him...'). Jobs' legacy on the behaviour of so many future companies will be an interesting one, because some people only looked at that one side, and ran with it.
      - Swizec 10y ago
        As somebody who used to be like that: startups/businesses are hard enough without burning employees out and people hating you. Your job is to remove negative factors, not create them.
      - pacaro 10y ago
        This happened within Microsoft too, a lot of engineers who aspired to be Dave Cutler thought that they should start by acting like him.
    - user837387 10y ago
      He was an asshole that happened to be right several times in his career. First with Apple, then with Pixar, then again with Next and Apple. Your are being disingenuous by trying to paint it like he was just lucky.
      - Swizec 10y ago
        I'm not saying he got lucky, I'm saying it's obvious he was right in hindsight and impossible to tell in foresight.
wyager 10y ago
Anyone of particularly high quality is capable of finding work elsewhere without much difficulty, so high-quality employees are actually less likely to put up with crazy tirades.
- astrodust 10y ago
  In other words, if you want to hire and retain the best talent, try not to be so much of an asshole. This "my way or the highway" attitude is how companies turn into shitty little fiefdoms filled with incompetent losers lorded over by a bunch of goons.
- GuiA 10y ago
  Anyone of particularly high quality isn't going to be happy with 90% of the work available elsewhere. When you're at the top, you don't want to be managed by scrubs.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    That's a bold claim. There are plenty of high performers who would rather be managed with dignity by a "scrub" than be berated by an genius asshole.

user837387 10y ago

No, if the employee keeps not reaching his potential then it is right to call him out on this. Do this only if the employee is not carrying his own weight when you know he is capable of more, otherwise just fire him. Of course, if your manager is being an abusive asshole then leave to another company. Also, if you have to do this more than once then just fire the guy. I agree, never take abuse from anybody.

overcast 10y ago
Sitting someone down personally, and explaining the situation with respect. Is a lot different then screaming at someone, telling them they are the single point of failure, swearing and calling them out in front of their peers.
- user837387 10y ago
  I know what you are saying, but reality is reality. He was an asshole to everybody. I don't like assholes but he definitely got things done.
  - overcast 10y ago
    He got things done, because he actually knew what he was doing, but happened to be an asshole. For every one of those, there is a million other assholes that will sink the ship.
- zeveb 10y ago
  Of course, there's a place for calling someone out in front of his peers, too. Part of the art of leadership is to do that when necessary (because if not, one's failing to do what's necessary), but only when necessary.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  You're fighting back even though you seem to agree with user837387. In order to facilitate continuing to argue, you seem to be shifting the goalposts so that you can continue flagging the behavior as bad behavior: OP said: "looked at you and very directly said in a very loud and stern voice" Your edit: "screaming at someone, swearing and calling them out in front of their peers"