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If this blows up it's over for most german car manufacturers. They sold a lot of diesel cars, and most of them probably have some hacks to meet Euro standards.

If this blows up it's over for most german car manufacturers. They sold a lot of diesel cars, and most of them probably have some hacks to meet Euro standards. They should be forced to fix all cars, reimburse buyers for any losses, and be forced(!) to go green asap (which probably means at least 10 years, so yeah there should be some force)!

sintaxi 10y ago
I think it would be a reasonable to forbid VW from ever making a combustible engine ever again. Forcing them to go green or perish. It's some Lex Luther level shit they pulled.
- stefantalpalaru 10y ago
  Actually, VW is one of the least polluting offenders: http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-vehicle-tests-show-dramatic-variation-nox-emissions-modern-diesel-cars-new-eu http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-vehicle-tests-show... Volvo, Renault, Hyundai, Opel and Audi are much worse, as you can see in the last graph. There's also a highly polluting Jeep at the top: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-range-of-cars-emit-more-pollution-in-real-driving-conditions-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-ran... So this whole "let's make an example out of VW" has nothing to do with the scale of the crime.
_nedR 10y ago
It seems to be game over for diesel cars in general, even if you ignore their eventual replacement with electric cars. They have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Their popularity was due to their higher fuel efficiency; But for diesels, it seems that there is trade-off between fuel efficiency and NOx emissions (http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-di...). With many cities and countries trying to curb smog and air pollution, diesels are on the top of the hitlist. edit: reworded, and changed link
- disiplus 10y ago
  diesels are popular in europe for one reason that probably somebody from us will not understand. the price of fuel. because the price of fuel is so much bigger fuel efficiency is the biggest concern
  - LordKano 10y ago
    A big part of diesel's fuel efficiency advantage is caused by the emissions controls on gasoline powered vehicles. Vehicles from the early 70s often had similar gas mileage to smaller lighter vehicles from the late 90s-early 2000s but the newer cars had much better emissions. If the makers of gasoline powered cars had cheated like VW did on their diesels, the diesel advantage would have been nonexistent.
    - bluGill 10y ago
      Even if you had no emissions laws diesel would still have a large fuel consumption advantage. Diesel contains more energy per volume (139000 btu/gallon vs 124000 btu/gallon). In addition the design of a diesel engine does not require a strict stoichiometric air/fuel ration. The result is at less than full throttle the gasoline engine the efficiency of a gasoline engine drops off faster than a diesel engine. In an ideal efficiency engine (no emissions) a gasoline engine at full throttle is more fuel efferent than a diesel engine, but when at less than full throttle - which is where most engine spend all their time) the diesel engine is more efficient. Note I skipped a dozen pages of disclaimers on the above claim: there are many ways in the real world to cheat the above.
    - hx87 10y ago
      > Vehicles from the early 70s often had similar gas mileage to smaller lighter vehicles from the late 90s-early 2000s but the newer cars had much better emissions. Source? Electronic fuel injection with closed-loop fuel/air control wasn't a mature technology in the 1970s, and open-loop fuel injection (not to mention carburetors) combined with 3- and 4-speed transmissions are inherently less efficient then closed-loop with 4, 5 and 6-speed transmissions.
  - 10y ago

sintaxi 10y ago

I think it would be a reasonable to forbid VW from ever making a combustible engine ever again. Forcing them to go green or perish. It's some Lex Luther level shit they pulled.

stefantalpalaru 10y ago
Actually, VW is one of the least polluting offenders: http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-vehicle-tests-show-dramatic-variation-nox-emissions-modern-diesel-cars-new-eu http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-vehicle-tests-show... Volvo, Renault, Hyundai, Opel and Audi are much worse, as you can see in the last graph. There's also a highly polluting Jeep at the top: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-range-of-cars-emit-more-pollution-in-real-driving-conditions-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-ran... So this whole "let's make an example out of VW" has nothing to do with the scale of the crime.

_nedR 10y ago

It seems to be game over for diesel cars in general, even if you ignore their eventual replacement with electric cars. They have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Their popularity was due to their higher fuel efficiency; But for diesels, it seems that there is trade-off between fuel efficiency and NOx emissions (http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-di...). With many cities and countries trying to curb smog and air pollution, diesels are on the top of the hitlist. edit: reworded, and changed link

disiplus 10y ago
diesels are popular in europe for one reason that probably somebody from us will not understand. the price of fuel. because the price of fuel is so much bigger fuel efficiency is the biggest concern
- LordKano 10y ago
  A big part of diesel's fuel efficiency advantage is caused by the emissions controls on gasoline powered vehicles. Vehicles from the early 70s often had similar gas mileage to smaller lighter vehicles from the late 90s-early 2000s but the newer cars had much better emissions. If the makers of gasoline powered cars had cheated like VW did on their diesels, the diesel advantage would have been nonexistent.
  - bluGill 10y ago
    Even if you had no emissions laws diesel would still have a large fuel consumption advantage. Diesel contains more energy per volume (139000 btu/gallon vs 124000 btu/gallon). In addition the design of a diesel engine does not require a strict stoichiometric air/fuel ration. The result is at less than full throttle the gasoline engine the efficiency of a gasoline engine drops off faster than a diesel engine. In an ideal efficiency engine (no emissions) a gasoline engine at full throttle is more fuel efferent than a diesel engine, but when at less than full throttle - which is where most engine spend all their time) the diesel engine is more efficient. Note I skipped a dozen pages of disclaimers on the above claim: there are many ways in the real world to cheat the above.
  - hx87 10y ago
    > Vehicles from the early 70s often had similar gas mileage to smaller lighter vehicles from the late 90s-early 2000s but the newer cars had much better emissions. Source? Electronic fuel injection with closed-loop fuel/air control wasn't a mature technology in the 1970s, and open-loop fuel injection (not to mention carburetors) combined with 3- and 4-speed transmissions are inherently less efficient then closed-loop with 4, 5 and 6-speed transmissions.
- 10y ago