5 ms·

As someone who semi-regularly cooks, all the prepared food choices looked really unappetizing to me. It's easy to avoid added sugar if you make your own food:

As someone who semi-regularly cooks, all the prepared food choices looked really unappetizing to me. It's easy to avoid added sugar if you make your own food: just don't dump sugar in while you cook. I think the bigger story here is that for most of human history, every single household cooked because it was the only economical way to feed yourself (restaurants have always been a luxury good). In the US, we've recently had this weird economic inversion where it's become cheaper to feed yourself off of junk food, so now cooking has become some sort of luxury good. Come to think of it, exercise has followed the same path. In the past, only the rich could avoid physical activity. Nowadays, it's rich people who can afford pricey gym passes and personal trainers while their poorer compatriots also work in a call center or some other sedentary setting.

Nition 10y ago
> It's become cheaper to feed yourself off of junk food Has it really though, or are people just drawn to the convenience?
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  If by convenience, you include cooking time, then junk food is pretty cheap. A lot of working poor juggle multiple part-time jobs or the like (in families, sometimes both adults), so there's no stable schedule and no guarantee you'll have the time or energy to cook on any given day.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Most poor are not working poor. Many of those that are working don't work that much. Here are the facts: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/working-poor/archive/a-profile-of-the-working-poor-2013.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/working-poor/archive/a-profi... The less money you have, the more leisure time you have. That leisure time is just spent in front of the TV rather than working out in a park. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm
    - disordinary 10y ago
      There are the people that don't fall within those statistics because they aren't technically working poor, but are still not earning a living wage. They aren't below the poverty line but still can't keep up with debt payments. They often work full time and moonlight with a part time job.
  - Nition 10y ago
    Agreed, I was meaning only in terms of direct purchase cost but the value of time spent is a worthwhile factor to consider.
- nether 10y ago
  Yes. A package of Oreos is much cheaper than fresh produce on a dollars per calorie basis.
  - skookum 10y ago
    I'll see your cherry picking and I'll raise you one: Assuming Oreos are $2.50 a box, they work out to 840 or so calories per dollar. Russet potatoes at 50 cents a pound work out to 880 or so calories per dollar. And that's using a fairly high price for the russets - in larger bags they can be found for 20 or even 10 cents a pound. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which of the two will leave one feeling more satiated after eating O(2000) calories thereof.
    - smallnamespace 10y ago
      Oreos can be eaten straight out of the bag, while Russet potatoes require some level of cooking and preparation (especially if you want them to be as palatable).
- speeder 10y ago
  I lived for a while in a city where soda was cheaper than water... even if this sounds absurd. Also, junk food was generally much cheaper, usually for the reasons it is junk in first place (example: "chicken" junk food is usually made with ground leftovers of chicken, after the more expensive parts are sold separetely).
- disordinary 10y ago
  Cooking for yourself is only cheaper than eating out if you buy in bulk and buy whatever is in season. Often the capital outlay of this makes it daunting, not to mention the fact that people who are worried often don't have a car to drive to the supermarket and therefore have to carry all those groceries by hand or on the bus. It's very hard to compete with the local burger chain which is within walking distance and where you can get a burger, chips, a drink, and desert for only a few dollars.
  - charlieflowers 10y ago
    No, that's not true. Cooking for yourself is _easily_ cheaper than eating out. You pay heavily for the luxury of having someone else prep your food. You can go to the grocery store once a week, cook a few meals to last through the week, and eat for $3 a meal without trying hard. Frugal people can eat for $1 a meal easily.
    - taeric 10y ago
      This can easily depend on what you eat. Both when eating out, and eating in. As such, strawmen and assertions without data will be tough to argue against. Specifically, I'm sure there are folks that spend more than I do. In either category. Numbers would be interesting to see, and I'm sure someone has them.
      - disordinary 10y ago
        It will very wildly city to city, state to state, country to country, and also season to season. Whereas fast food tends to be reasonably standard.
      - redial 10y ago
        If you compare the same meal and don't account for the time you spend cooking it, it will be cheaper to do it yourself every time. If you go to fancy restaurants it's not even close. You just have to compare the price of a soda, ~$3 and up (usually $5), to its price at the supermarket and you'll have your answer. Wine is also an easy one, with at least 300% markup even on cheap bottles. Everything is marked up like that (maybe calling it 'markup' is not really fair as they provide other things and not just a meal, but you get what I mean.) I've been cooking for years and not even trying to save money meals are less expensive.
- randomdata 10y ago
  If you include all of the costs of preparing your own meals, I don't think there is any contest. Time is expensive, the opportunity cost of a kitchen is substantial. In many cases, the cost of just those two things alone is enough to pay for all of your meals out at a reasonably priced restaurant. And we have only started to scratch the surface of all of the costs involved. If you only look at the cost of the raw ingredients, then cooking yourself is tough to compete with. Then again, if you only look at the price of lumber, building your own furniture is pretty tough to compete with too. Is that a good way to look at it? I'm not sure. Either way, for myself, I would quickly grow frustrated by a diet of junk food and/or eating at restraints frequently. I'll gladly take the time and pay a premium to have my own kitchen.
bluedino 10y ago
>> Nowadays, it's rich people who can afford pricey gym passes and personal trainers Planet Fitness is $10/month
- hawkice 10y ago
  Isn't that the place where they have free pizza? Normal gyms are ~$30/mo and not uncommonly subsidized by health insurance.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Blink fitness is $22 in NYC, has no free pizza and everything you need. I recently went to a $200/month Equinox and the only thing they had which blink lacked is eucalyptus and lavender soaked post-workout towels. Blink also lacks the 15 minute wait for a squat rack.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Poor people are often time poor too, so you're also omitting the cost + time of getting to/from the gym. Like, if you live in a good neighborhood, you just go out for a run. If you can afford a bad neighborhood, that's no longer a very safe option.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    False. Poor people have more leisure time than the rich, they just spend the time watching TV rather than exercising. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm
mnm1 10y ago
Running is free. There's meetups for free pickup games of all types of sports. Yoga is often free and on youtube. Kung fu is often free and on youtube. Weights are a super cheap one time investment as are rubber bands you can work out at home with. Even gyms are rather cheap nowadays, some without contracts. If you can't find a way to exercise for free or at extremely low cost, you're not trying hard enough.
- vivekd 10y ago
  I go to free yoga, there are a few places in my city offering. I know Lululemon offers free yoga at their stores in most cities throughout the world.
  - RLStrauss1918 10y ago
    Hello Vivekd. This has nothing to do with yoga. I'm new to hacker news and I wanted to thank you for linking to my story "How My Start-Up Failed" about my experience with condom keychains in the 1980s. If you and your readers would like to read about my other business failures, a place to start is: http://robertlstrauss.blogspot.com.es/2012/01/my-ebook-didnt-click.html http://robertlstrauss.blogspot.com.es/2012/01/my-ebook-didnt...
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Calisthenics are also great. Most are surprised by the physique attainable. Unfortunately the US is awful about free outdoor fitness equipment--I wish that changed. In many countries you can easily find outdoor gyms, but in the US a playground or even a combination of park benches, a tree, and some railings will do. For the record 99% of the time I've only received positive attention from this, but sometimes there are haters (usually either homeless people or overweight women in SUVs--just being honest). The only weights I might buy are a couple of 10 litre water containers -- usually a few bucks at a supermarket -- for shoulder exercises.
jknoepfler 10y ago
Fast food is absolutely not cheaper. It is perceived to be cheaper due to bad education and poor judgement. With a cheap slow cooker, bulk brown rice, bulk beans, fresh produce and a little bit of (optional) bacon, you can make a gigantic, delicious, filling, nutritious beans and rice dish for under $5, which will feed a family of 6 in even the most expensive city in the U.S. Dried beans and dried rice are ~$1/lb purchased in bulk in Seattle. Fresh produce is available cheaply year round at every grocery store. The same goes for salt, black pepper, bulk spices. All of these except the fresh produce and the bacon can be purchased literally months in advance, and are available online. The fresh produce and the bacon are a once-per-week affair, (which might be a genuine accessibility issue for some). The prep time is literally less than 5 minutes for the whole dish once you have it memorized and can cut a vegetable. Source: I cook for myself every day. I prefer big cheap one-pot slow cooker dishes.

Nition 10y ago

> It's become cheaper to feed yourself off of junk food Has it really though, or are people just drawn to the convenience?

smallnamespace 10y ago
If by convenience, you include cooking time, then junk food is pretty cheap. A lot of working poor juggle multiple part-time jobs or the like (in families, sometimes both adults), so there's no stable schedule and no guarantee you'll have the time or energy to cook on any given day.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Most poor are not working poor. Many of those that are working don't work that much. Here are the facts: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/working-poor/archive/a-profile-of-the-working-poor-2013.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/working-poor/archive/a-profi... The less money you have, the more leisure time you have. That leisure time is just spent in front of the TV rather than working out in a park. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm
  - disordinary 10y ago
    There are the people that don't fall within those statistics because they aren't technically working poor, but are still not earning a living wage. They aren't below the poverty line but still can't keep up with debt payments. They often work full time and moonlight with a part time job.
- Nition 10y ago
  Agreed, I was meaning only in terms of direct purchase cost but the value of time spent is a worthwhile factor to consider.
nether 10y ago
Yes. A package of Oreos is much cheaper than fresh produce on a dollars per calorie basis.
- skookum 10y ago
  I'll see your cherry picking and I'll raise you one: Assuming Oreos are $2.50 a box, they work out to 840 or so calories per dollar. Russet potatoes at 50 cents a pound work out to 880 or so calories per dollar. And that's using a fairly high price for the russets - in larger bags they can be found for 20 or even 10 cents a pound. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which of the two will leave one feeling more satiated after eating O(2000) calories thereof.
  - smallnamespace 10y ago
    Oreos can be eaten straight out of the bag, while Russet potatoes require some level of cooking and preparation (especially if you want them to be as palatable).
speeder 10y ago
I lived for a while in a city where soda was cheaper than water... even if this sounds absurd. Also, junk food was generally much cheaper, usually for the reasons it is junk in first place (example: "chicken" junk food is usually made with ground leftovers of chicken, after the more expensive parts are sold separetely).
disordinary 10y ago
Cooking for yourself is only cheaper than eating out if you buy in bulk and buy whatever is in season. Often the capital outlay of this makes it daunting, not to mention the fact that people who are worried often don't have a car to drive to the supermarket and therefore have to carry all those groceries by hand or on the bus. It's very hard to compete with the local burger chain which is within walking distance and where you can get a burger, chips, a drink, and desert for only a few dollars.
- charlieflowers 10y ago
  No, that's not true. Cooking for yourself is _easily_ cheaper than eating out. You pay heavily for the luxury of having someone else prep your food. You can go to the grocery store once a week, cook a few meals to last through the week, and eat for $3 a meal without trying hard. Frugal people can eat for $1 a meal easily.
  - taeric 10y ago
    This can easily depend on what you eat. Both when eating out, and eating in. As such, strawmen and assertions without data will be tough to argue against. Specifically, I'm sure there are folks that spend more than I do. In either category. Numbers would be interesting to see, and I'm sure someone has them.
    - disordinary 10y ago
      It will very wildly city to city, state to state, country to country, and also season to season. Whereas fast food tends to be reasonably standard.
    - redial 10y ago
      If you compare the same meal and don't account for the time you spend cooking it, it will be cheaper to do it yourself every time. If you go to fancy restaurants it's not even close. You just have to compare the price of a soda, ~$3 and up (usually $5), to its price at the supermarket and you'll have your answer. Wine is also an easy one, with at least 300% markup even on cheap bottles. Everything is marked up like that (maybe calling it 'markup' is not really fair as they provide other things and not just a meal, but you get what I mean.) I've been cooking for years and not even trying to save money meals are less expensive.
randomdata 10y ago
If you include all of the costs of preparing your own meals, I don't think there is any contest. Time is expensive, the opportunity cost of a kitchen is substantial. In many cases, the cost of just those two things alone is enough to pay for all of your meals out at a reasonably priced restaurant. And we have only started to scratch the surface of all of the costs involved. If you only look at the cost of the raw ingredients, then cooking yourself is tough to compete with. Then again, if you only look at the price of lumber, building your own furniture is pretty tough to compete with too. Is that a good way to look at it? I'm not sure. Either way, for myself, I would quickly grow frustrated by a diet of junk food and/or eating at restraints frequently. I'll gladly take the time and pay a premium to have my own kitchen.

bluedino 10y ago

>> Nowadays, it's rich people who can afford pricey gym passes and personal trainers Planet Fitness is $10/month

hawkice 10y ago
Isn't that the place where they have free pizza? Normal gyms are ~$30/mo and not uncommonly subsidized by health insurance.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Blink fitness is $22 in NYC, has no free pizza and everything you need. I recently went to a $200/month Equinox and the only thing they had which blink lacked is eucalyptus and lavender soaked post-workout towels. Blink also lacks the 15 minute wait for a squat rack.
smallnamespace 10y ago
Poor people are often time poor too, so you're also omitting the cost + time of getting to/from the gym. Like, if you live in a good neighborhood, you just go out for a run. If you can afford a bad neighborhood, that's no longer a very safe option.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  False. Poor people have more leisure time than the rich, they just spend the time watching TV rather than exercising. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t11.htm

mnm1 10y ago

Running is free. There's meetups for free pickup games of all types of sports. Yoga is often free and on youtube. Kung fu is often free and on youtube. Weights are a super cheap one time investment as are rubber bands you can work out at home with. Even gyms are rather cheap nowadays, some without contracts. If you can't find a way to exercise for free or at extremely low cost, you're not trying hard enough.

vivekd 10y ago
I go to free yoga, there are a few places in my city offering. I know Lululemon offers free yoga at their stores in most cities throughout the world.
- RLStrauss1918 10y ago
  Hello Vivekd. This has nothing to do with yoga. I'm new to hacker news and I wanted to thank you for linking to my story "How My Start-Up Failed" about my experience with condom keychains in the 1980s. If you and your readers would like to read about my other business failures, a place to start is: http://robertlstrauss.blogspot.com.es/2012/01/my-ebook-didnt-click.html http://robertlstrauss.blogspot.com.es/2012/01/my-ebook-didnt...
wallace_f 10y ago
Calisthenics are also great. Most are surprised by the physique attainable. Unfortunately the US is awful about free outdoor fitness equipment--I wish that changed. In many countries you can easily find outdoor gyms, but in the US a playground or even a combination of park benches, a tree, and some railings will do. For the record 99% of the time I've only received positive attention from this, but sometimes there are haters (usually either homeless people or overweight women in SUVs--just being honest). The only weights I might buy are a couple of 10 litre water containers -- usually a few bucks at a supermarket -- for shoulder exercises.

jknoepfler 10y ago

Fast food is absolutely not cheaper. It is perceived to be cheaper due to bad education and poor judgement. With a cheap slow cooker, bulk brown rice, bulk beans, fresh produce and a little bit of (optional) bacon, you can make a gigantic, delicious, filling, nutritious beans and rice dish for under $5, which will feed a family of 6 in even the most expensive city in the U.S. Dried beans and dried rice are ~$1/lb purchased in bulk in Seattle. Fresh produce is available cheaply year round at every grocery store. The same goes for salt, black pepper, bulk spices. All of these except the fresh produce and the bacon can be purchased literally months in advance, and are available online. The fresh produce and the bacon are a once-per-week affair, (which might be a genuine accessibility issue for some). The prep time is literally less than 5 minutes for the whole dish once you have it memorized and can cut a vegetable. Source: I cook for myself every day. I prefer big cheap one-pot slow cooker dishes.