5 ms·

I read the link, but it's not clear whether 'sustained' means the code will be managed by an organization so that bugs and security issues can be fixed, compile

I read the link, but it's not clear whether 'sustained' means the code will be managed by an organization so that bugs and security issues can be fixed, compiled and downloaded, or, that the code actually runs uninterrupted for 60 (up to) years. The latter is much more interesting to me.

Ericson2314 10y ago
I would not use anything less than SeL4 for the latter. [Or something else as verified.]
nmstoker 10y ago
I agree it's not clear but my money is on the intended meaning being the former, despite the intellectually greater interest in the latter!
ianhowson 10y ago
It's the former. You'd be insane to design critical infrastructure under the assumption that a single machine is going to stay up nonstop for 60 years.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  >You'd be insane to design critical infrastructure under the assumption that a single machine is going to stay up nonstop for 60 years. With a definition of machine that's slightly more broad than "single desktop box or server" then I think 60yr is a pretty reasonable uptime goal. Something with redundancy and hot swap capabilities should have no problem getting several decade uptime. These are embedded devices, it's not like a nuclear reactor needs to reboot frequently.
  - ianhowson 10y ago
    Of course you could design a machine that can run for 60 years. It's just a bad idea to depend on it. A nuclear reactor has regulatory oversight and a risk management plan. It must survive the failure of any single component, no matter its reliability target. Over 60 years, those 'highly unlikely' threats -- earthquake, terrorist attack, military action -- they become 'kinda probable'. No single component can survive these, and you'd be foolish to try.
    - hazeii 10y ago
      PDP-11's are still powering nuclear reactors to this day - a few years back GE were looking for programmers to keep them going (interesting to me, since I programmed them in octal and Macro-11 back in the early 80's). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_...
  - boznz 10y ago
    I suspect my citizen solar digital watch I got in 1989 will still be "ticking" long after I'm gone. Likewise several of the PLC's I know have been up for 20+ years
- deleted 10y ago
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Ericson2314 10y ago

I would not use anything less than SeL4 for the latter. [Or something else as verified.]

nmstoker 10y ago

I agree it's not clear but my money is on the intended meaning being the former, despite the intellectually greater interest in the latter!

ianhowson 10y ago

It's the former. You'd be insane to design critical infrastructure under the assumption that a single machine is going to stay up nonstop for 60 years.

dsfyu404ed 10y ago
>You'd be insane to design critical infrastructure under the assumption that a single machine is going to stay up nonstop for 60 years. With a definition of machine that's slightly more broad than "single desktop box or server" then I think 60yr is a pretty reasonable uptime goal. Something with redundancy and hot swap capabilities should have no problem getting several decade uptime. These are embedded devices, it's not like a nuclear reactor needs to reboot frequently.
- ianhowson 10y ago
  Of course you could design a machine that can run for 60 years. It's just a bad idea to depend on it. A nuclear reactor has regulatory oversight and a risk management plan. It must survive the failure of any single component, no matter its reliability target. Over 60 years, those 'highly unlikely' threats -- earthquake, terrorist attack, military action -- they become 'kinda probable'. No single component can survive these, and you'd be foolish to try.
  - hazeii 10y ago
    PDP-11's are still powering nuclear reactors to this day - a few years back GE were looking for programmers to keep them going (interesting to me, since I programmed them in octal and Macro-11 back in the early 80's). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_...
- boznz 10y ago
  I suspect my citizen solar digital watch I got in 1989 will still be "ticking" long after I'm gone. Likewise several of the PLC's I know have been up for 20+ years
deleted 10y ago
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