5 ms·

I might point out that men are not totally fine. Men are imprisoned at a much higher rate than women, enter and complete college at a lower rate than women, an

by awt 10y ago

I might point out that men are not totally fine. Men are imprisoned at a much higher rate than women, enter and complete college at a lower rate than women, and have a higher rate of successful suicide. Men also bear the vast majority of the tax burden and have few rights in family court. Men also live shorter lives than women.

jolux 10y ago
The points about incarceration and suicide are true however these are gendered expectations enforced by the patriarchy (men must not have emotions, men can "take" punishment) and also issues that a lot of feminists are concerned about. The shorter lives point has a number of causes one of which seems to be testosterone which is of course unfortunate. As for the tax burden and family court rights though those are less objective and I suspect the tax burden is correlated with income which would suggest that men have higher incomes on average than women if what you say is true.
madhadron 10y ago
The rates of entering and completing college and of successful suicide are real problems. Definitely give you those. The others, I'm not sure I can. Some of this is biological. The rate of sociopathy is much higher in men than women, and young men have hormonal drives to physical violence that are much stronger than women. I would be astonished at a society where incarceration rates are equal. Similarly, men living shorter lives appears to be biological, as it is ubiquitous across cultures. As for tax burden, if you factor in systemic lower rates of pay for women than men, lower employment opportunities for the three quarters of single parent households that have only a mother rather than only a father, and split the burden across couples where one does not work, is it still so?
- cryptarch 10y ago
  "systemic lower rates of pay for women than men" Do you have a reference for that, specifically a recent one concerning the US? Last I heard there is a pay gap (in the US) if you don't consider job titles, but close to none if corrected for industry and title. I'm under the impression it's more of a gap in job position distribution, which may partially be explained by males better average negotiation skills/outcomes and the majority share males have of physically taxing and dangerous (i.e. military) jobs.
- belorn 10y ago
  > Some of this is biological It wasn't a long time ago that most gender inequality for women was labeled "biological". Estrogen was blamed for everything between unsuitability for voting, then it was specific professions, and then higher hospital rates. All which research in the last 100 years has found to be either completely false or highly overrated as a factor. Culture it seems, plays a order of magnitude bigger factor in everything we used to blame sex hormones. > young men have hormonal drives to physical violence So lets say we had a study that looked at hormonal levels in young men, and tried to correlate that to tendencies to commit physical violence. We should expect that those individuals with higher tendency of violence should have a statistical higher levels. And researchers did such studies and found that there was no correlation between hormonal levels and risk of committing violence. There was a correlation between abnormal levels of several times higher than can naturally occur, and violence. Within the natural range however, testosterone has no regulative effect on violence. > men living shorter lives appears to be biological, as it is ubiquitous across cultures Higher income for men is also ubiquitous across cultures, so is that biological? At best it is a half truth, since success statistics from dating site do give a strong correlation for women that focus on personal health. Men in turn has success being correlated to wealth and ability to support a family, and less so to personal health. This translate to a strong cultural difference in incentives, possible caused by biology, but surely thats not one that gender equality can't over come.
sctb 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13351730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13351730 and marked it off-topic. The guidelines ask us not to introduce classic flamewars like this.

by awt 10y ago

jolux 10y ago

The points about incarceration and suicide are true however these are gendered expectations enforced by the patriarchy (men must not have emotions, men can "take" punishment) and also issues that a lot of feminists are concerned about. The shorter lives point has a number of causes one of which seems to be testosterone which is of course unfortunate. As for the tax burden and family court rights though those are less objective and I suspect the tax burden is correlated with income which would suggest that men have higher incomes on average than women if what you say is true.

madhadron 10y ago

The rates of entering and completing college and of successful suicide are real problems. Definitely give you those. The others, I'm not sure I can. Some of this is biological. The rate of sociopathy is much higher in men than women, and young men have hormonal drives to physical violence that are much stronger than women. I would be astonished at a society where incarceration rates are equal. Similarly, men living shorter lives appears to be biological, as it is ubiquitous across cultures. As for tax burden, if you factor in systemic lower rates of pay for women than men, lower employment opportunities for the three quarters of single parent households that have only a mother rather than only a father, and split the burden across couples where one does not work, is it still so?

cryptarch 10y ago
"systemic lower rates of pay for women than men" Do you have a reference for that, specifically a recent one concerning the US? Last I heard there is a pay gap (in the US) if you don't consider job titles, but close to none if corrected for industry and title. I'm under the impression it's more of a gap in job position distribution, which may partially be explained by males better average negotiation skills/outcomes and the majority share males have of physically taxing and dangerous (i.e. military) jobs.
belorn 10y ago
> Some of this is biological It wasn't a long time ago that most gender inequality for women was labeled "biological". Estrogen was blamed for everything between unsuitability for voting, then it was specific professions, and then higher hospital rates. All which research in the last 100 years has found to be either completely false or highly overrated as a factor. Culture it seems, plays a order of magnitude bigger factor in everything we used to blame sex hormones. > young men have hormonal drives to physical violence So lets say we had a study that looked at hormonal levels in young men, and tried to correlate that to tendencies to commit physical violence. We should expect that those individuals with higher tendency of violence should have a statistical higher levels. And researchers did such studies and found that there was no correlation between hormonal levels and risk of committing violence. There was a correlation between abnormal levels of several times higher than can naturally occur, and violence. Within the natural range however, testosterone has no regulative effect on violence. > men living shorter lives appears to be biological, as it is ubiquitous across cultures Higher income for men is also ubiquitous across cultures, so is that biological? At best it is a half truth, since success statistics from dating site do give a strong correlation for women that focus on personal health. Men in turn has success being correlated to wealth and ability to support a family, and less so to personal health. This translate to a strong cultural difference in incentives, possible caused by biology, but surely thats not one that gender equality can't over come.

sctb 10y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13351730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13351730 and marked it off-topic. The guidelines ask us not to introduce classic flamewars like this.