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Conservatives, doubtlessly conservatives that you know, just elected Donald Trump President of the United States. Let that sink in for a moment and then reflec

Conservatives, doubtlessly conservatives that you know, just elected Donald Trump President of the United States. Let that sink in for a moment and then reflect on what conservatism even means.

brighteyes 10y ago
I dislike Trump and voted for Clinton obviously. I'm sad they won. But why should I be surprised that the right-leaning half of the US voted for the Republican candidate?
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >But why should I be surprised that the right-leaning half of the US voted for the Republican candidate? Because the Republican candidate deeply disagreed with most Republican ideas. For instance, he openly wants his government to "pick winners" in the marketplace and has repeatedly said he won't cut Social Security. For the Party to fall in behind him on personality alone, while he speaks one heresy after another against their purported ideology, shows that they no longer have an ideology they preach in good-faith. They've become a bad-faith party, distinct from conservative parties in other countries, who just seek power, connections, and wealth for themselves, and say whatever's necessary to get it.
  - brighteyes 10y ago
    That's not at all what I hear from conservative people. First, yes, Trump disagreed with a bunch of typical Republican ideas. But those turned out to be things that Republican voters wanted, even if the Republican party members didn't. Like his stance on trade. Second, Trump loudly championed a lot of typical Republican causes, like the "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" mantra, being "pro-life", etc. Those seem like terrible ideas/policies to me and probably you, but Trump is a typical conservative on those. So no, it wasn't on "personality alone."
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      >Second, Trump loudly championed a lot of typical Republican causes, like the "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" mantra, being "pro-life", etc. He also disagreed loudly with those same positions at other times. He just doesn't consistently toe the conservative ideological line handed down by Republican Party leaders and intellectuals. Now, that's definitely part of why his voter base like him, but it also means that he's still not an ideological conservative of the typical kind.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  The specifics should surprise you. For example, the fact that evangelicals voted for a guy who publicly bragged about grabbing women by their genitals, was accused of raping a minor, and bought beauty pageants for the sole purpose of being able to walk in unannounced on the contestants naked in the backstage, should have reviled anyone who considers themselves a devout Christian. But it didn't, apparently, because... I don't know.
CalChris 10y ago
You are normalizing Trump as the Republican candidate. No.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  I'm afraid that you are only fooling yourself. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/politics/donald-trump-republican-nomination-2016-election/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/politics/donald-trump-republic...
  - CalChris 10y ago
    No one is fooling anyone. http://mitchellarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hitler-named-chancellor-article-2.jpg http://mitchellarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hitle...
- eropple 10y ago
  "The Republican candidate" is, as regrettable as that is, correct. Question of fact, not of norms. Normalizing as "the conservative candidate" would get my dander up, because he's not. If you were to then suggest that Republicans are not conservative--well, duh. ;)
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  What's wrong with this? He ran and was endorsed on the GOP ticket.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    You should ask yourself the Falsifiability question: What could possibly be wrong with this if he ran and was endorsed on the GOP ticket? Does the mere act of running on the GOP ticket absolve Trump of everything and anything? That appears to be the case for his supporters. Less so for the rest of us and when I refuse to accept Trump as normal, that is what I'm saying.
    - eropple 10y ago

Conservatives, doubtlessly conservatives that you know, just elected Donald Trump President of the United States. Let that sink in for a moment and then reflect on what conservatism even means.

brighteyes 10y ago

I dislike Trump and voted for Clinton obviously. I'm sad they won. But why should I be surprised that the right-leaning half of the US voted for the Republican candidate?

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>But why should I be surprised that the right-leaning half of the US voted for the Republican candidate? Because the Republican candidate deeply disagreed with most Republican ideas. For instance, he openly wants his government to "pick winners" in the marketplace and has repeatedly said he won't cut Social Security. For the Party to fall in behind him on personality alone, while he speaks one heresy after another against their purported ideology, shows that they no longer have an ideology they preach in good-faith. They've become a bad-faith party, distinct from conservative parties in other countries, who just seek power, connections, and wealth for themselves, and say whatever's necessary to get it.
- brighteyes 10y ago
  That's not at all what I hear from conservative people. First, yes, Trump disagreed with a bunch of typical Republican ideas. But those turned out to be things that Republican voters wanted, even if the Republican party members didn't. Like his stance on trade. Second, Trump loudly championed a lot of typical Republican causes, like the "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" mantra, being "pro-life", etc. Those seem like terrible ideas/policies to me and probably you, but Trump is a typical conservative on those. So no, it wasn't on "personality alone."
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >Second, Trump loudly championed a lot of typical Republican causes, like the "Repeal and Replace Obamacare" mantra, being "pro-life", etc. He also disagreed loudly with those same positions at other times. He just doesn't consistently toe the conservative ideological line handed down by Republican Party leaders and intellectuals. Now, that's definitely part of why his voter base like him, but it also means that he's still not an ideological conservative of the typical kind.
enraged_camel 10y ago
The specifics should surprise you. For example, the fact that evangelicals voted for a guy who publicly bragged about grabbing women by their genitals, was accused of raping a minor, and bought beauty pageants for the sole purpose of being able to walk in unannounced on the contestants naked in the backstage, should have reviled anyone who considers themselves a devout Christian. But it didn't, apparently, because... I don't know.

CalChris 10y ago

You are normalizing Trump as the Republican candidate. No.

WalterSear 10y ago
I'm afraid that you are only fooling yourself. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/politics/donald-trump-republican-nomination-2016-election/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/politics/donald-trump-republic...
- CalChris 10y ago
  No one is fooling anyone. http://mitchellarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hitler-named-chancellor-article-2.jpg http://mitchellarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hitle...
eropple 10y ago
"The Republican candidate" is, as regrettable as that is, correct. Question of fact, not of norms. Normalizing as "the conservative candidate" would get my dander up, because he's not. If you were to then suggest that Republicans are not conservative--well, duh. ;)
darpa_escapee 10y ago
What's wrong with this? He ran and was endorsed on the GOP ticket.
- CalChris 10y ago
  You should ask yourself the Falsifiability question: What could possibly be wrong with this if he ran and was endorsed on the GOP ticket? Does the mere act of running on the GOP ticket absolve Trump of everything and anything? That appears to be the case for his supporters. Less so for the rest of us and when I refuse to accept Trump as normal, that is what I'm saying.
  - eropple 10y ago