10 ms·

The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect

by milesf 10y ago

The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect enemy they have now: terrorists. A faceless, ever-present threat that can keep the war drums beating. What I'd like to see is the military-industrial complex shift their battle to a War on Extinction: space exploration.

ekianjo 10y ago
> The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive. Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.
liquidise 10y ago
I'm glad to see someone else come to a similar conclusion. The one thing i would add: this singular enemy tends to be held generationally. As the generations move in and out of the prime voter ages (and the congresspeople they are voting for) US policy changes dramatically around these vilified groups.
- tunap 10y ago
  My favorite stoner had very cogent thoughts on perceived and real fears[0], marijuana usage[1] and our easily manipulated lizard brains[2]. Carl Sagan corrupted me for life. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world [1] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden
spiderfarmer 10y ago
Imagine if there was an all-out war on poverty, disease and corruption. The progress we could make.
- maw 10y ago
  You mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty? Good luck.
  - spiderfarmer 10y ago
    No, more like: Spend all defense budgets around the world on programs that reduce poverty, increase health and functioning governments.
    - wsgeorge 10y ago
      I don't see that happening. Because someone is going to want to keep their guns, just in case.
      - tripzilch 10y ago
        Yes. They also want to keep the smallpox, just in case. We could have banished it from the planet entirely but we're keeping some samples of it, just in case. It's absurd. The absurd part being, if you told me we actually got rid of it, I wouldn't believe it either. So maybe better keep some, just in case. So understandable and so stupid at the same time--absurdity.
ht85 10y ago
I don't think needing an enemy is specific to the United States, they are just slightly less shameful than other "modern" countries about it. I quote modern because in many areas of its way to govern, the US seems to be pretty on par with other societies they love to demonize and call "backwards". I think generally there are people with all sorts of agendas. Unfortunately, in the current state of society, the ones that stick will always be the ones who drive profits the most. Fear might be the strongest motivator for the average human being. It's not surprising systems fed by conflict and imaginary enemies seem to thrive so much. It doesn't mean that there aren't bubbles of people who are different, but they are just ripples among the waves.
darpa_escapee 10y ago
Terrorists are an existential threat, but our society doesn't have just one bogeyman: they are around every corner to scare us into doing things we wouldn't normally do. Remember, the terrorists manufacture drugs to sell to us and if you buy drugs you are supporting terrorism. That said, I think it might subside for different reasons. The demographics of drug addiction are changing. Addictive drug use went from being primarily a poor minority inner city epidemic to something affecting affluent white kids, professionals with bad backs and the elderly. The road from Oxycontin to heroin is a well documented phenomenon[1] that has become all too familiar with the people who pushed for severe punishments for drug crimes. If your kid could be facing 10 years in jail because he was charged with the intent to distribute a bag of heroin, and that same situation is playing out in towns all over America, suddenly the wheels of change get greased. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-crackdown-oxycodone-hydrocodone/1963123/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-...
- morgante 10y ago
  > Terrorists are an existential threat Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers. There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. Even several orders of magnitude more attacks a year would be barely a blip in terms of actual casualties.
  - darpa_escapee 10y ago
    > Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers. There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. To them terrorists, immigrants and muslims are existential threats: they want to blow them up, take their jobs and run their lives and government. > There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. I agree.
    - morgante 10y ago
      > There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. Sure, and there are millions of people who believe all sorts of nutty things. Millions of people believe that stars predict the future or that aliens regularly abduct people. That doesn't mean we should legitimize these beliefs.
vinayak147 10y ago
This is not unique to the US and not even unique to the modern era. The "common enemy" is the glue of every civilization. Build a case against a scapegoat and rally public opinion to wage a war - this is essentially the job of every form of government. Let's wage war on poverty, corporations, the 1%, unions, drugs, immigrants, corruption, terrorism... the list goes on and on. You can go back to the Bhagwad Gita, the Bible, the ancient myths... and the story doesn't change very much.
notyourwork 10y ago
> War on Extinction This is a really good way to phrase it as a marketing campaign. It could be used for global warming, energy problems and like you mention space exploration.
- groovy2shoes 10y ago
  Given our track record when it comes to "Wars on Concepts", initiating an outright "War on Extinction" seems to me like a sure-fire way to guarantee we go extinct within 20 years... Maybe we ought to instead start a "War on Health" or a "War on Learning" ;)
losteric 10y ago
The US is held together by our enemies. Without one, our "perfect" union would quickly fall apart due to infighting. We lack the social cohesion to exist otherwise. Our nation has lost the grand dreams that drove our forefathers... now we huddle together fearing the nightmares and boogeymen.
sroerick 10y ago
The war on drugs and the war on terror is the same war. We stage coups in democratic countries, then we install puppet leaders. Then we start growing, harvesting, or selling drugs there. Then we move on to the next country. Check out the history of Captagon.

by milesf 10y ago

ekianjo 10y ago

> The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive. Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.

liquidise 10y ago

I'm glad to see someone else come to a similar conclusion. The one thing i would add: this singular enemy tends to be held generationally. As the generations move in and out of the prime voter ages (and the congresspeople they are voting for) US policy changes dramatically around these vilified groups.

tunap 10y ago
My favorite stoner had very cogent thoughts on perceived and real fears[0], marijuana usage[1] and our easily manipulated lizard brains[2]. Carl Sagan corrupted me for life. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world [1] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden

spiderfarmer 10y ago

Imagine if there was an all-out war on poverty, disease and corruption. The progress we could make.

maw 10y ago
You mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty? Good luck.
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  No, more like: Spend all defense budgets around the world on programs that reduce poverty, increase health and functioning governments.
  - wsgeorge 10y ago
    I don't see that happening. Because someone is going to want to keep their guns, just in case.
    - tripzilch 10y ago
      Yes. They also want to keep the smallpox, just in case. We could have banished it from the planet entirely but we're keeping some samples of it, just in case. It's absurd. The absurd part being, if you told me we actually got rid of it, I wouldn't believe it either. So maybe better keep some, just in case. So understandable and so stupid at the same time--absurdity.

ht85 10y ago

I don't think needing an enemy is specific to the United States, they are just slightly less shameful than other "modern" countries about it. I quote modern because in many areas of its way to govern, the US seems to be pretty on par with other societies they love to demonize and call "backwards". I think generally there are people with all sorts of agendas. Unfortunately, in the current state of society, the ones that stick will always be the ones who drive profits the most. Fear might be the strongest motivator for the average human being. It's not surprising systems fed by conflict and imaginary enemies seem to thrive so much. It doesn't mean that there aren't bubbles of people who are different, but they are just ripples among the waves.

darpa_escapee 10y ago

Terrorists are an existential threat, but our society doesn't have just one bogeyman: they are around every corner to scare us into doing things we wouldn't normally do. Remember, the terrorists manufacture drugs to sell to us and if you buy drugs you are supporting terrorism. That said, I think it might subside for different reasons. The demographics of drug addiction are changing. Addictive drug use went from being primarily a poor minority inner city epidemic to something affecting affluent white kids, professionals with bad backs and the elderly. The road from Oxycontin to heroin is a well documented phenomenon[1] that has become all too familiar with the people who pushed for severe punishments for drug crimes. If your kid could be facing 10 years in jail because he was charged with the intent to distribute a bag of heroin, and that same situation is playing out in towns all over America, suddenly the wheels of change get greased. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-crackdown-oxycodone-hydrocodone/1963123/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-...

morgante 10y ago
> Terrorists are an existential threat Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers. There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. Even several orders of magnitude more attacks a year would be barely a blip in terms of actual casualties.
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  > Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers. There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. To them terrorists, immigrants and muslims are existential threats: they want to blow them up, take their jobs and run their lives and government. > There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. I agree.
  - morgante 10y ago
    > There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. Sure, and there are millions of people who believe all sorts of nutty things. Millions of people believe that stars predict the future or that aliens regularly abduct people. That doesn't mean we should legitimize these beliefs.

vinayak147 10y ago

This is not unique to the US and not even unique to the modern era. The "common enemy" is the glue of every civilization. Build a case against a scapegoat and rally public opinion to wage a war - this is essentially the job of every form of government. Let's wage war on poverty, corporations, the 1%, unions, drugs, immigrants, corruption, terrorism... the list goes on and on. You can go back to the Bhagwad Gita, the Bible, the ancient myths... and the story doesn't change very much.

notyourwork 10y ago

> War on Extinction This is a really good way to phrase it as a marketing campaign. It could be used for global warming, energy problems and like you mention space exploration.

groovy2shoes 10y ago
Given our track record when it comes to "Wars on Concepts", initiating an outright "War on Extinction" seems to me like a sure-fire way to guarantee we go extinct within 20 years... Maybe we ought to instead start a "War on Health" or a "War on Learning" ;)

losteric 10y ago

The US is held together by our enemies. Without one, our "perfect" union would quickly fall apart due to infighting. We lack the social cohesion to exist otherwise. Our nation has lost the grand dreams that drove our forefathers... now we huddle together fearing the nightmares and boogeymen.

sroerick 10y ago

The war on drugs and the war on terror is the same war. We stage coups in democratic countries, then we install puppet leaders. Then we start growing, harvesting, or selling drugs there. Then we move on to the next country. Check out the history of Captagon.