6 ms·

I'm for the legalization of marijuana, but I really hate the arguments these articles present in favor of it; I'm sure your raging 9-year-old kid would chill ou

by gragas 10y ago

I'm for the legalization of marijuana, but I really hate the arguments these articles present in favor of it; I'm sure your raging 9-year-old kid would chill out on a strong dose of heroin, too. We should not falsely elevate marijuana as some wonder drug. Surely, there's a better argument that can be presented for legalization?

pizza 10y ago
Whatever the argument is, I expect it to work as such: argmax substance: E[sum P(symptoms_i improves | substance, ailment)]. Heroin works great for burn victims, for instance..
thesmallestcat 10y ago
This article is propaganda. It doesn't contain any interesting data, just a rehash of the policy landscape and a single, heart string-tugging anecdote.
- jptman 10y ago
  Unfortunately, it's the heart string-tugging anecdotes that make policies happen in the US, not data.
  - tunap 10y ago
    After 80 years of ignoring the data, I do not know how else one would effect change other than employing the same tactics. Empirical data is available, anecdotal data is available, historical harm has accrued for non-violent "offenders". The rarely spoken facets of the hemp plant's superiority to pulp derived paper and cotton fabrics have been ignored for almost a century. Before "reefer madness" was invented, the aforementioned products couldn't compete, hemp was common and priduced superior products. The reasons for demonizing hemp, not marijuana, were economic forces and lobbyists pushing their agendas at any cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaign_against_marijuana_1930.E2.80.931937 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaig...
  - chillacy 10y ago
    Storytelling probably wins over data everywhere there are people, and that probably can't be changed, barring genetic modification.
- wavefunction 10y ago
  The data that backs this story up has been replicated and published for a long time. This is one family's experience, a transformative one for every member of the family. It's written not to provide scientific evidence but to communicate to those people who may still oppose marijuana liberalization and who don't even care about the data, which is clear cut and unmistakeable at this point. Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness.
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    Yet none of that data is presented in the article. That it exists doesn't improve the journalism here. > Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness. You must have a poor imagination. There are cookies for that though.
    - demonshreder 10y ago
      This is published under opinions. Empirical evidence is usually more than enough for this section of 'journalism'.
- pg314 10y ago
  I know it is fashionable to label articles propaganda, but the term gets thrown around lightly. propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. In what way is the article biased or misleading? It is clearly labeled 'Opinion'. Not every article in a newspaper needs to meet the standards for an article in a peer-reviewed journal. There is a place for human-interest stories too.
- bojl 10y ago
  Propaganda is kind of a strong word.
- geofft 10y ago
  You might fight wars with data, but you win or lose them with propaganda. If the defenders wish to win the war on drugs, they must be willing to use at least as much propaganda as the attackers have used.
- mistermann 10y ago
  What data would this woman's experiment have produced that would improve this article in a meaningful way?
- ericzawo 10y ago
  Perhaps you ought to reread the definition of the word you're confusing this opinion article with.
- 1024core 10y ago
  I think your dismissal of the article as "propaganda" is nothing but trolling. Why do you think Cannabis should be illegal? Countless anecdotes have shown that cannabis works where other medicines don't. At what point should we drop this charade of a "war on drugs" and just accept that this plant has medicinal properties like no other?
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    Plainly I don't think it should be illegal, I was a medicinal marijuana patient for many years, as I said elsewhere in these comments. I don't think that a mother making cannabis cookies and eating bits of them to observe the effects, determine strain and dosage for her child is appropriate. Frankly that's embarrassing behavior for a college professor, somebody who ought to know better. If you're going to give a 9 year-old an MMJ recommendation/prescription, everything besides dose delivery should be managed exclusively by a doctor. Outright prohibition isn't the answer, but the scatter shot of substitutes aren't correct either. Don't look for me to recommend the solution, I simply took issue with the Washington Post carrying this opinion piece which, frankly, glamorizes dangerous behavior. And it's bullshit that you put words in my mouth. I never said cannabis should be illegal. "Trolling", really? Is that a byword for disagreement now? Please go harangue your DEA strawman somewhere else.
hubb 10y ago
this is a false equivalency for two reasons: marijuana is not physically addictive, and THC doesn't have near the same capability to incapacitate people that heroin does.
- leakybit 10y ago
  Which is why the only drug I do is meth, since it's not physically addictive and actually makes me function better.
  - samirillian 10y ago
    I love all these fallacious arguments by analogy. Just name the side effect of weed that you think is problematic, don't try to use some elaborate bait and switch to equivocate.
  - chillwaves 10y ago
    You mean Adderall? Millions of others do too.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      No, methamphetamine is a legal treatment for ADHD and available at local grocery stores in the US: https://m.goodrx.com/methamphetamine https://m.goodrx.com/methamphetamine Tens of millions of dollars of meth are sold by pharma companies in the US each year.
      - angry-hacker 10y ago
        But you do need a prescription?
- dominotw 10y ago
  >marijuana is not physically addictive, One of my friends complained for months about headaches, loss of libido, tummy cramps while getting off of it after years of use.
op00to 10y ago
Heroin is not really a fair comparison. If you take away the pot, the kid won't get seriously ill from withdrawal symptoms. If you give too much pot, the kid won't forget to breathe and die. If it works for them, let them do what they think is best for their kid. The argument is basically there's an option that works for them, and causes little health complications. That it's "looked down on" means nothing. I'm sure talk therapy for mental illness was looked down on for quite a long time, and yet now it's a first line treatment with broad acceptance in popular culture.
- gragas 10y ago
  I completely agree with you. Your argument stands much better than the one presented in this article.
  - Johnny555 10y ago
    The mother saw something in literature that made her think it could be useful, researched by going to a marijuana support group, talking to a Harvard professor/psychiatrist, and got clearance from her son's neurologist, then did methodical experimentation to find the right strain. She didn't just wake up one day and say "hey! Let's give him a joint and see what happens!" Which, I should add is pretty much how my sister came to use marijuana as medicine -- except she didn't live in a state where medical marijuana was legal, her teenaged son had a source. She was on treatment for an autoimmune disorder and on the days she took her meds, she was so nauseous that she couldn't get out of bed. Pharmaceutical anti-nausea meds (including $20/day Marinol) worked poorly or had unwanted side effects. Finally her doctor pointed her at a website and told her that he couldn't recommend it, but other patients had gotten relief from medical marijuana. And indeed, it made a huge difference for her. Due to her illness, she had access to pretty much any narcotic painkiller she wanted, yet to gain access to marijuana, she had to ask her son to risk prosecution to buy it from a guy he knew from school.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Xanax would do the trick, but detox is horrible. I'm not sure about pot, obviously nothing close.
ozim 10y ago
You know heroin is a bit more addicting than marijuana and argument is that you can feed 9-yo with it and in case his other issues are solved he can stop with eating cookies. It is more like you have choice. Where with heroin you are robbed of that choice. Taking heroine is artificial choice by changed chemistry of your body not your free will or your comfort.
jMyles 10y ago
> I'm sure your raging 9-year-old kid would chill out on a strong dose of heroin, too Read what you've said again; do you realize how completely ridiculous this sounds? A "strong dose" of heroin, to a 9-year-old who is opiate naive, will obviously not cause them to "chill out." It will cause them to horribly itch, turn green in the face, violently vomit, alternate between pouring sweat and feeling freezing cold, moan and cry, and finally lose consciousness and quite plausibly their life. Cannabis, even at a very "strong dose," will cause none of this. As plant medicines go, cannabis is something like a wonder drug at least in the limited sense that it is therapeutically active for a wide array of conditions at very, very safe doses. There may be no other drug which is a candidate for relief for the symptoms described in the article and for which a trial regiment has such a low cost in terms of risk. Heroin most certainly isn't one.
- gragas 10y ago
  One could properly dose this 9-year-old and make him "chill out." I have no doubt that it is possible. That said, I really agree with your argument. You make a great case for legalization that isn't merely "oh hur dur look how my child mellows out on weed." Thank you.
  - ritchiea 10y ago
    The case isn't "my kid mellows out on weed" it's "my kid has behavioral problems that prevent him from functioning at home & in school that are alleviated by weed".
    - mcguire 10y ago
      The point, though, as I take it, is, would you be satisfied if someone took the time to isolate and synthesize the active ingredients in weed and made those available in prescription form?
      - jMyles 10y ago
        > if someone took the time to isolate and synthesize the active ingredients in weed and made those available in prescription form What is the advantage of this over raw plant material?
spraak 10y ago
I came into the comments to find the trolls, the haters and the ignorant. Didn't have to look far. Cannabis IS A wonder drug
- mythrwy 10y ago
  Cannabis is a wonder drug. It makes people wonder about all kind of things. Like where they left the car keys. And why they left the refrigerator door open.
  - spraak 10y ago
    That's very specific to the cannabinoid THC. There are countless other healing cannabinoids that have no psychedelic or impairing effect, e.g. CBD, which is at this time probably the most studied non-THC cannabinoid.
jpalomaki 10y ago
I understood from the article that the root cause of the problem was that the kid had pains. Due to his autism, he had problems communicating about his feelings and therefore the main manifested as rage. With small doses of cannabis the parents then managed to reduce the pain which then reduced the anger.
mcguire 10y ago
Technically, this isn't an argument for legalization, but an argument for medical use of synthetic cannabinoids. If research were not so difficult, you could treat this with a pill, which does nothing for all the other problems of the war on drugs.
- lightedman 10y ago
  "Technically, this isn't an argument for legalization, but an argument for medical use of synthetic cannabinoids." Except synthetic cannabinoids have killed people. Marinol/Dronabinol has cost people their lives.
jimnotgym 10y ago
Is the article asking for legalization, of for proper controls of it to be used as a medicine? It is illegal for me to buy Heroine, but my doctor can prescribe me dia-Morphine which amounts to the same thing. Why stop something being used as a medicine because you don't want recreational use?
gravypod 10y ago
I prefer the moral argument that the government shouldn't tell you what you can do to your own body. I also prefer the ideology that states you shouldn't force your own opinions on others.

by gragas 10y ago

pizza 10y ago

Whatever the argument is, I expect it to work as such: argmax substance: E[sum P(symptoms_i improves | substance, ailment)]. Heroin works great for burn victims, for instance..

thesmallestcat 10y ago

This article is propaganda. It doesn't contain any interesting data, just a rehash of the policy landscape and a single, heart string-tugging anecdote.

jptman 10y ago
Unfortunately, it's the heart string-tugging anecdotes that make policies happen in the US, not data.
- tunap 10y ago
  After 80 years of ignoring the data, I do not know how else one would effect change other than employing the same tactics. Empirical data is available, anecdotal data is available, historical harm has accrued for non-violent "offenders". The rarely spoken facets of the hemp plant's superiority to pulp derived paper and cotton fabrics have been ignored for almost a century. Before "reefer madness" was invented, the aforementioned products couldn't compete, hemp was common and priduced superior products. The reasons for demonizing hemp, not marijuana, were economic forces and lobbyists pushing their agendas at any cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaign_against_marijuana_1930.E2.80.931937 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaig...
- chillacy 10y ago
  Storytelling probably wins over data everywhere there are people, and that probably can't be changed, barring genetic modification.
wavefunction 10y ago
The data that backs this story up has been replicated and published for a long time. This is one family's experience, a transformative one for every member of the family. It's written not to provide scientific evidence but to communicate to those people who may still oppose marijuana liberalization and who don't even care about the data, which is clear cut and unmistakeable at this point. Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness.
- thesmallestcat 10y ago
  Yet none of that data is presented in the article. That it exists doesn't improve the journalism here. > Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness. You must have a poor imagination. There are cookies for that though.
  - demonshreder 10y ago
    This is published under opinions. Empirical evidence is usually more than enough for this section of 'journalism'.
pg314 10y ago
I know it is fashionable to label articles propaganda, but the term gets thrown around lightly. propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. In what way is the article biased or misleading? It is clearly labeled 'Opinion'. Not every article in a newspaper needs to meet the standards for an article in a peer-reviewed journal. There is a place for human-interest stories too.
bojl 10y ago
Propaganda is kind of a strong word.
geofft 10y ago
You might fight wars with data, but you win or lose them with propaganda. If the defenders wish to win the war on drugs, they must be willing to use at least as much propaganda as the attackers have used.
mistermann 10y ago
What data would this woman's experiment have produced that would improve this article in a meaningful way?
ericzawo 10y ago
Perhaps you ought to reread the definition of the word you're confusing this opinion article with.
1024core 10y ago
I think your dismissal of the article as "propaganda" is nothing but trolling. Why do you think Cannabis should be illegal? Countless anecdotes have shown that cannabis works where other medicines don't. At what point should we drop this charade of a "war on drugs" and just accept that this plant has medicinal properties like no other?
- thesmallestcat 10y ago
  Plainly I don't think it should be illegal, I was a medicinal marijuana patient for many years, as I said elsewhere in these comments. I don't think that a mother making cannabis cookies and eating bits of them to observe the effects, determine strain and dosage for her child is appropriate. Frankly that's embarrassing behavior for a college professor, somebody who ought to know better. If you're going to give a 9 year-old an MMJ recommendation/prescription, everything besides dose delivery should be managed exclusively by a doctor. Outright prohibition isn't the answer, but the scatter shot of substitutes aren't correct either. Don't look for me to recommend the solution, I simply took issue with the Washington Post carrying this opinion piece which, frankly, glamorizes dangerous behavior. And it's bullshit that you put words in my mouth. I never said cannabis should be illegal. "Trolling", really? Is that a byword for disagreement now? Please go harangue your DEA strawman somewhere else.

hubb 10y ago

this is a false equivalency for two reasons: marijuana is not physically addictive, and THC doesn't have near the same capability to incapacitate people that heroin does.

leakybit 10y ago
Which is why the only drug I do is meth, since it's not physically addictive and actually makes me function better.
- samirillian 10y ago
  I love all these fallacious arguments by analogy. Just name the side effect of weed that you think is problematic, don't try to use some elaborate bait and switch to equivocate.
- chillwaves 10y ago
  You mean Adderall? Millions of others do too.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    No, methamphetamine is a legal treatment for ADHD and available at local grocery stores in the US: https://m.goodrx.com/methamphetamine https://m.goodrx.com/methamphetamine Tens of millions of dollars of meth are sold by pharma companies in the US each year.
    - angry-hacker 10y ago
      But you do need a prescription?
dominotw 10y ago
>marijuana is not physically addictive, One of my friends complained for months about headaches, loss of libido, tummy cramps while getting off of it after years of use.

op00to 10y ago

Heroin is not really a fair comparison. If you take away the pot, the kid won't get seriously ill from withdrawal symptoms. If you give too much pot, the kid won't forget to breathe and die. If it works for them, let them do what they think is best for their kid. The argument is basically there's an option that works for them, and causes little health complications. That it's "looked down on" means nothing. I'm sure talk therapy for mental illness was looked down on for quite a long time, and yet now it's a first line treatment with broad acceptance in popular culture.

gragas 10y ago
I completely agree with you. Your argument stands much better than the one presented in this article.
- Johnny555 10y ago
  The mother saw something in literature that made her think it could be useful, researched by going to a marijuana support group, talking to a Harvard professor/psychiatrist, and got clearance from her son's neurologist, then did methodical experimentation to find the right strain. She didn't just wake up one day and say "hey! Let's give him a joint and see what happens!" Which, I should add is pretty much how my sister came to use marijuana as medicine -- except she didn't live in a state where medical marijuana was legal, her teenaged son had a source. She was on treatment for an autoimmune disorder and on the days she took her meds, she was so nauseous that she couldn't get out of bed. Pharmaceutical anti-nausea meds (including $20/day Marinol) worked poorly or had unwanted side effects. Finally her doctor pointed her at a website and told her that he couldn't recommend it, but other patients had gotten relief from medical marijuana. And indeed, it made a huge difference for her. Due to her illness, she had access to pretty much any narcotic painkiller she wanted, yet to gain access to marijuana, she had to ask her son to risk prosecution to buy it from a guy he knew from school.
angry-hacker 10y ago
Xanax would do the trick, but detox is horrible. I'm not sure about pot, obviously nothing close.

ozim 10y ago

You know heroin is a bit more addicting than marijuana and argument is that you can feed 9-yo with it and in case his other issues are solved he can stop with eating cookies. It is more like you have choice. Where with heroin you are robbed of that choice. Taking heroine is artificial choice by changed chemistry of your body not your free will or your comfort.

jMyles 10y ago

> I'm sure your raging 9-year-old kid would chill out on a strong dose of heroin, too Read what you've said again; do you realize how completely ridiculous this sounds? A "strong dose" of heroin, to a 9-year-old who is opiate naive, will obviously not cause them to "chill out." It will cause them to horribly itch, turn green in the face, violently vomit, alternate between pouring sweat and feeling freezing cold, moan and cry, and finally lose consciousness and quite plausibly their life. Cannabis, even at a very "strong dose," will cause none of this. As plant medicines go, cannabis is something like a wonder drug at least in the limited sense that it is therapeutically active for a wide array of conditions at very, very safe doses. There may be no other drug which is a candidate for relief for the symptoms described in the article and for which a trial regiment has such a low cost in terms of risk. Heroin most certainly isn't one.

gragas 10y ago
One could properly dose this 9-year-old and make him "chill out." I have no doubt that it is possible. That said, I really agree with your argument. You make a great case for legalization that isn't merely "oh hur dur look how my child mellows out on weed." Thank you.
- ritchiea 10y ago
  The case isn't "my kid mellows out on weed" it's "my kid has behavioral problems that prevent him from functioning at home & in school that are alleviated by weed".
  - mcguire 10y ago
    The point, though, as I take it, is, would you be satisfied if someone took the time to isolate and synthesize the active ingredients in weed and made those available in prescription form?
    - jMyles 10y ago
      > if someone took the time to isolate and synthesize the active ingredients in weed and made those available in prescription form What is the advantage of this over raw plant material?

spraak 10y ago

I came into the comments to find the trolls, the haters and the ignorant. Didn't have to look far. Cannabis IS A wonder drug

mythrwy 10y ago
Cannabis is a wonder drug. It makes people wonder about all kind of things. Like where they left the car keys. And why they left the refrigerator door open.
- spraak 10y ago
  That's very specific to the cannabinoid THC. There are countless other healing cannabinoids that have no psychedelic or impairing effect, e.g. CBD, which is at this time probably the most studied non-THC cannabinoid.

jpalomaki 10y ago

I understood from the article that the root cause of the problem was that the kid had pains. Due to his autism, he had problems communicating about his feelings and therefore the main manifested as rage. With small doses of cannabis the parents then managed to reduce the pain which then reduced the anger.

mcguire 10y ago

Technically, this isn't an argument for legalization, but an argument for medical use of synthetic cannabinoids. If research were not so difficult, you could treat this with a pill, which does nothing for all the other problems of the war on drugs.

lightedman 10y ago
"Technically, this isn't an argument for legalization, but an argument for medical use of synthetic cannabinoids." Except synthetic cannabinoids have killed people. Marinol/Dronabinol has cost people their lives.

jimnotgym 10y ago

Is the article asking for legalization, of for proper controls of it to be used as a medicine? It is illegal for me to buy Heroine, but my doctor can prescribe me dia-Morphine which amounts to the same thing. Why stop something being used as a medicine because you don't want recreational use?

gravypod 10y ago

I prefer the moral argument that the government shouldn't tell you what you can do to your own body. I also prefer the ideology that states you shouldn't force your own opinions on others.