4 ms·

If I go and take something without paying, does the party I took it from have the right to recover said object? If you have access to the server, due to the cu

by trome 10y ago

If I go and take something without paying, does the party I took it from have the right to recover said object? If you have access to the server, due to the customer adding your SSH keys or similar, and they do not remove your keys, that is implied consent. They have not bothered to close the front door, thus you can walk in and take back what you own.

PeterisP 10y ago
You have the right to demand that object and the court system may recover it, but you cannot simply take it. Even in your own example, for a physical stolen object "They have not bothered to close the front door, thus you can walk in and take back what you own." is a nice way to get in jail yourself.
- trome 10y ago
  Depends on your jurisdiction, if you see stolen property that you can prove ownership of (bike, computer, etc) and you recover it off someone else's property without breaking and entering in Washington State, your legally in the clear. The court system can't effectively handle the case load that every stolen piece of property would put on it, hence why most jurisdictions are reasonable about property recovery.
- dfraser992 10y ago
  There is a theoretical ethical/legal view of things - and then there is a real-world practical view. If I was dealing with a company who already have lawyers, then sure, I'd go the "right" way and use the legal system (on the basis the legal system actually works...). But a bad client, who can't even run their small business in a competent manner ... and who can't hire better lawyers than me... the use of brute force (vs the legal way) is sometimes the wiser choice. It is a risk to do such a thing, so you have to know the odds, but it could save you some headache. The legal system is nothing but a tool and a shit tool at that. People who know how to manipulate it are better off than those who think it is more than just a badly made tool - and the most frequent manipulators of it are the bad actors. I have realized the IT community is at some disadvantage in some sense, compared to non-IT people, because we have such a implicit faith/trust/belief/respect in rules - we spend all day trying to teach computers to follow rules. The vast majority of humans on the other hand have little respect for abstract rules and will do whatever they want, coming up with justifications and rationalizations after the fact. Outside of IT, you have to realize the only rules you have to follow is 'not get caught'. I'm not saying don't act ethically, I'd encourage it, but a lot of people are not interested in acting ethically at all, especially when it is detrimental to what they want. So you have to learn how to deal with them effectively unless you want to drive yourself crazy.
foldr 10y ago
It's implied consent to update their website in the way that was previously agreed, not to do anything you want with it.
- trome 10y ago
  Definitely, if you deface their website intentionally, they may have a case against you (a shaky one at best), but if you do the bare minimum to revert their website back to its prior state, their case will be without merit.
  - foldr 10y ago
    I don't see why. You'd still be making a change to their website that they didn't authorize you to make.
rebuilder 10y ago
Let's say you give your neighbour the keys to your front door so they can water your flowers when you're gone, and let you in if you forget your own keys. You then borrow a bunch of books from your neighbour and fail to return them when you said you would. While you're away, and without asking for permission, the neighbour enters your home and retrieves the books. Was your neighbour trespassing? If not, why not?

by trome 10y ago

PeterisP 10y ago

You have the right to demand that object and the court system may recover it, but you cannot simply take it. Even in your own example, for a physical stolen object "They have not bothered to close the front door, thus you can walk in and take back what you own." is a nice way to get in jail yourself.

trome 10y ago
Depends on your jurisdiction, if you see stolen property that you can prove ownership of (bike, computer, etc) and you recover it off someone else's property without breaking and entering in Washington State, your legally in the clear. The court system can't effectively handle the case load that every stolen piece of property would put on it, hence why most jurisdictions are reasonable about property recovery.
dfraser992 10y ago
There is a theoretical ethical/legal view of things - and then there is a real-world practical view. If I was dealing with a company who already have lawyers, then sure, I'd go the "right" way and use the legal system (on the basis the legal system actually works...). But a bad client, who can't even run their small business in a competent manner ... and who can't hire better lawyers than me... the use of brute force (vs the legal way) is sometimes the wiser choice. It is a risk to do such a thing, so you have to know the odds, but it could save you some headache. The legal system is nothing but a tool and a shit tool at that. People who know how to manipulate it are better off than those who think it is more than just a badly made tool - and the most frequent manipulators of it are the bad actors. I have realized the IT community is at some disadvantage in some sense, compared to non-IT people, because we have such a implicit faith/trust/belief/respect in rules - we spend all day trying to teach computers to follow rules. The vast majority of humans on the other hand have little respect for abstract rules and will do whatever they want, coming up with justifications and rationalizations after the fact. Outside of IT, you have to realize the only rules you have to follow is 'not get caught'. I'm not saying don't act ethically, I'd encourage it, but a lot of people are not interested in acting ethically at all, especially when it is detrimental to what they want. So you have to learn how to deal with them effectively unless you want to drive yourself crazy.

foldr 10y ago

It's implied consent to update their website in the way that was previously agreed, not to do anything you want with it.

trome 10y ago
Definitely, if you deface their website intentionally, they may have a case against you (a shaky one at best), but if you do the bare minimum to revert their website back to its prior state, their case will be without merit.
- foldr 10y ago
  I don't see why. You'd still be making a change to their website that they didn't authorize you to make.

rebuilder 10y ago

Let's say you give your neighbour the keys to your front door so they can water your flowers when you're gone, and let you in if you forget your own keys. You then borrow a bunch of books from your neighbour and fail to return them when you said you would. While you're away, and without asking for permission, the neighbour enters your home and retrieves the books. Was your neighbour trespassing? If not, why not?