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I find it kinda funny because we finally have decent cross browser consistency on the front-end, which back in the day, was the main frustration point of front-

I find it kinda funny because we finally have decent cross browser consistency on the front-end, which back in the day, was the main frustration point of front-end dev. Now the problem is finding a framework that you can depend on and invest in long term. Makes me wonder if the browser wars turned front-end devs into masochists and now the only way to satisfy that urge for pain is to reinvent their frameworks on a regular basis. /s

tracker1 10y ago
Angular isn't going away, even 1.x will probably see updates for another 3-5 years. React also isn't going anywhere with the heavy hitters behind it... although there may be some migration to react-alikes that use jsx etc, but the techniques in the apps are largely the same. Vue.js is probably here for a while, though a little uncertain, there's definitely some desire there. I'm not sure about Polymer and web-components, I think there will definitely be more web-component packages to work from in the future, but for now, just kind of holding off myself. I'm pretty actively following the JS world, and tbh in 2012 I felt so in over my head as npm was growing... It's gotten easier. In general, your best bet is to stay a little behind the bleeding edge and look at what the heavy hitters are investing time/money in, and beyond that what you like. I'm pretty heavy in the React camp (including Preact, Inferno, etc)... Most of the look-alikes are compatible enough to work, or have a similar enough workflow. I happen to like the component structure, and am a fan of Redux as well. Others have hunkered down for Angular2+.
- macinjosh 10y ago
  I totally agree that those things are not going to simply disappear. It just seems that every new framework supposedly has some distinct advantage that previous frameworks lack and the urge of most front-end devs is to move on to the next shiny thing. If you don't move onto the next shiny thing you are considered to be some sort of luddite or ignorant to the amazing new thing a new framework has. So while I can pick a framework like the ones you mentioned and stick with it convincing team mates or colleagues to do the same becomes difficult.
  - ehsanu1 10y ago
    Then the problem seems to be the colleagues rather than the creation of frameworks. I'm happily following all this framework turnover while totally ignoring it for actual work. To be fair, I have had colleagues want to switch to some new framework for $reasons, but I guess I have enough sway (and we're time-constrained enough) to not do just that.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    Honestly, I've been fighting an uphill battle for a long time now... I was an early adopter with node, and pretty early on the React bandwagon... I've been pretty good at picking winners/contenders, that said it's often a matter of when it hits critical mass for adoption.
innocentoldguy 10y ago
@macinjosh - That is an interesting hypothesis. I've posited that the fragmentation in the Javascript community may be related to the pace of improvements in Javascript itself. Let's face it. Javascript was quite excremental a decade ago. Now, it is becoming quite nice. So, I wonder if developers bail on old JS frameworks in order to write nifty new ones using the latest language features? I'm trying to bring "nifty" back. What do you think? No? @tracker1 - You're kind of speaking to my point. Most of the frameworks you mention basically do the exact same thing, or subsets thereof. Does the Javascript community really have to be this fragmented to be successful? Other communities aren't. Maybe it does. I don't know, which is why I wanted to discuss it.
- macinjosh 10y ago
  I think you have a great point there. Javascript and browser APIs has been changing a lot and so best practices change a lot. I am not sure why it is taking so long for things to gel in JS/DOM land though. My best guess is that it is because JS is essentially the only programming language that can be used in the browser. Programmers coming from a myriad of different language backgrounds have to use it and they use it in ways that make the most sense to them. If you're a python dev you still have to use JS on the front-end. If you're a PHP dev still gotta use JS. etc. etc. It is all things to all people and thats not easy.

tracker1 10y ago

Angular isn't going away, even 1.x will probably see updates for another 3-5 years. React also isn't going anywhere with the heavy hitters behind it... although there may be some migration to react-alikes that use jsx etc, but the techniques in the apps are largely the same. Vue.js is probably here for a while, though a little uncertain, there's definitely some desire there. I'm not sure about Polymer and web-components, I think there will definitely be more web-component packages to work from in the future, but for now, just kind of holding off myself. I'm pretty actively following the JS world, and tbh in 2012 I felt so in over my head as npm was growing... It's gotten easier. In general, your best bet is to stay a little behind the bleeding edge and look at what the heavy hitters are investing time/money in, and beyond that what you like. I'm pretty heavy in the React camp (including Preact, Inferno, etc)... Most of the look-alikes are compatible enough to work, or have a similar enough workflow. I happen to like the component structure, and am a fan of Redux as well. Others have hunkered down for Angular2+.

macinjosh 10y ago
I totally agree that those things are not going to simply disappear. It just seems that every new framework supposedly has some distinct advantage that previous frameworks lack and the urge of most front-end devs is to move on to the next shiny thing. If you don't move onto the next shiny thing you are considered to be some sort of luddite or ignorant to the amazing new thing a new framework has. So while I can pick a framework like the ones you mentioned and stick with it convincing team mates or colleagues to do the same becomes difficult.
- ehsanu1 10y ago
  Then the problem seems to be the colleagues rather than the creation of frameworks. I'm happily following all this framework turnover while totally ignoring it for actual work. To be fair, I have had colleagues want to switch to some new framework for $reasons, but I guess I have enough sway (and we're time-constrained enough) to not do just that.
- tracker1 10y ago
  Honestly, I've been fighting an uphill battle for a long time now... I was an early adopter with node, and pretty early on the React bandwagon... I've been pretty good at picking winners/contenders, that said it's often a matter of when it hits critical mass for adoption.

innocentoldguy 10y ago

@macinjosh - That is an interesting hypothesis. I've posited that the fragmentation in the Javascript community may be related to the pace of improvements in Javascript itself. Let's face it. Javascript was quite excremental a decade ago. Now, it is becoming quite nice. So, I wonder if developers bail on old JS frameworks in order to write nifty new ones using the latest language features? I'm trying to bring "nifty" back. What do you think? No? @tracker1 - You're kind of speaking to my point. Most of the frameworks you mention basically do the exact same thing, or subsets thereof. Does the Javascript community really have to be this fragmented to be successful? Other communities aren't. Maybe it does. I don't know, which is why I wanted to discuss it.

macinjosh 10y ago
I think you have a great point there. Javascript and browser APIs has been changing a lot and so best practices change a lot. I am not sure why it is taking so long for things to gel in JS/DOM land though. My best guess is that it is because JS is essentially the only programming language that can be used in the browser. Programmers coming from a myriad of different language backgrounds have to use it and they use it in ways that make the most sense to them. If you're a python dev you still have to use JS on the front-end. If you're a PHP dev still gotta use JS. etc. etc. It is all things to all people and thats not easy.