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I work on Stripe subscriptions. Thanks for the writeup! We have quite a bit planned to improve the subscriptions logic (including fixing the issues mentioned i

I work on Stripe subscriptions. Thanks for the writeup! We have quite a bit planned to improve the subscriptions logic (including fixing the issues mentioned in the post). If you have any questions, suggestions, or feedback, please shoot me an email -- slava@stripe.com. Would love to hear from you and work together to improve the product!

gingerlime 10y ago
I already reported this to you guys, but I'm curious if others experienced something similar. Tax, and particularly VAT in the EU, is a real pain to deal with. Stripe does offer `tax_percent` to be added to invoices, but unfortunately this can only be added on top of the price. This means, that if I want to offer a flat price to all EU customers with VAT included, things get messy. Either I do my own tax thing separately (or via metadata), or I have to create a bunch of different subscription plans, each for every VAT rate in different EU countries... If the `tax_percent` could be deducted from the full amount, rather than added on top, this will solve this in a much cleaner and simpler way. Paypal integration would also be really helpful, particularly for subscriptions.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  > Tax, and particularly VAT in the EU, is a real pain to deal with. Stripe does offer `tax_percent` to be added to invoices, but unfortunately this can only be added on top of the price. This means, that if I want to offer a flat price to all EU customers with VAT included, things get messy. Either I do my own tax thing separately (or via metadata), or I have to create a bunch of different subscription plans, each for every VAT rate in different EU countries... Please don't do that if you do B2B because it means that people from different countries get different prices as business customers when they get VAT reimbursed. Also please provide reverse charge if possible.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    On the other hand, if you do B2C, it's just about the only way you can actually comply with all of the relevant EU tax and consumer protection rules. Mercifully, B2B is mostly spared that particular nightmare for now, though the reverse charge mechanism is not exactly fun to work with either. It would certainly be helpful if Stripe made it easier to reconcile everything needed for those EU VAT returns. Some essential things like determining the exchange rate that was applied for a particular transaction if you work in multiple currencies remain quite awkward. The deposits from Stripe into merchant bank accounts also still don't seem to have any reference supplied so you can trace them back through the API to find the underlying charges, refunds, etc. It is nice that they show the country of origin for the card now, though. At least that gives most merchants a fighting chance of keeping enough evidence of where every customer is based to satisfy the EU VAT rules.
    - beejiu 10y ago
      > reverse charge mechanism is not exactly fun to work with either. The reverse charge mechanism is great. The alternative system was to register for VAT in all 28 EU member states and file returns in each state. The reverse charge mechanism means if you are exporting services, you only have to deal with the your local tax authority. (Unless your customers are not VAT registered, then you have to make sure you stay under the threshold in each state.)
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        The reverse charge mechanism is great. Well, it's better than the old alternative you mentioned, but that's a bit like saying the MOSS scheme is great because otherwise you'd have to register and file returns in every EU member state where you sold a single £5 knitting pattern PDF from your kitchen table business. Being better than a system so insanely disproportionate and over-complicated that small businesses would have no hope of complying isn't particularly impressive.
        anderspetersson 10y ago
        Yeah, it's abit insane. I spent a week or so implementing this for my saas not long ago. Hopefully this will change in 2018 for companies making less than 100k EUR/month: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/digital-single-market-modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/digital-s...
  - gingerlime 10y ago
    We're B2C ...
- polimorfico 10y ago
  You don't need to have so many subscription plans to deal with this issue. I built https://quaderno.io https://quaderno.io to deal with this mess. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help!
  - gingerlime 10y ago
    We didn't. We're going to use metadata to store VAT info. Looked at a few solutions like quaderno and Taxamo, but to be perfectly honest it feels like it adds more complexity to us than it saves us. If stripe supported tax_percent deducted from the full amount, it would make things even more elegant (and could be useful for you guys as 3rd party integrations I imagine).
codegeek 10y ago
When will you guys add the failed payment notification emails out of the box ? Been asking this for a while. Webhooks are fine but I feel like a failed payment email should be part of the core just like successful payment emails are.

gingerlime 10y ago

I already reported this to you guys, but I'm curious if others experienced something similar. Tax, and particularly VAT in the EU, is a real pain to deal with. Stripe does offer `tax_percent` to be added to invoices, but unfortunately this can only be added on top of the price. This means, that if I want to offer a flat price to all EU customers with VAT included, things get messy. Either I do my own tax thing separately (or via metadata), or I have to create a bunch of different subscription plans, each for every VAT rate in different EU countries... If the `tax_percent` could be deducted from the full amount, rather than added on top, this will solve this in a much cleaner and simpler way. Paypal integration would also be really helpful, particularly for subscriptions.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
> Tax, and particularly VAT in the EU, is a real pain to deal with. Stripe does offer `tax_percent` to be added to invoices, but unfortunately this can only be added on top of the price. This means, that if I want to offer a flat price to all EU customers with VAT included, things get messy. Either I do my own tax thing separately (or via metadata), or I have to create a bunch of different subscription plans, each for every VAT rate in different EU countries... Please don't do that if you do B2B because it means that people from different countries get different prices as business customers when they get VAT reimbursed. Also please provide reverse charge if possible.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  On the other hand, if you do B2C, it's just about the only way you can actually comply with all of the relevant EU tax and consumer protection rules. Mercifully, B2B is mostly spared that particular nightmare for now, though the reverse charge mechanism is not exactly fun to work with either. It would certainly be helpful if Stripe made it easier to reconcile everything needed for those EU VAT returns. Some essential things like determining the exchange rate that was applied for a particular transaction if you work in multiple currencies remain quite awkward. The deposits from Stripe into merchant bank accounts also still don't seem to have any reference supplied so you can trace them back through the API to find the underlying charges, refunds, etc. It is nice that they show the country of origin for the card now, though. At least that gives most merchants a fighting chance of keeping enough evidence of where every customer is based to satisfy the EU VAT rules.
  - beejiu 10y ago
    > reverse charge mechanism is not exactly fun to work with either. The reverse charge mechanism is great. The alternative system was to register for VAT in all 28 EU member states and file returns in each state. The reverse charge mechanism means if you are exporting services, you only have to deal with the your local tax authority. (Unless your customers are not VAT registered, then you have to make sure you stay under the threshold in each state.)
    - Silhouette 10y ago
      The reverse charge mechanism is great. Well, it's better than the old alternative you mentioned, but that's a bit like saying the MOSS scheme is great because otherwise you'd have to register and file returns in every EU member state where you sold a single £5 knitting pattern PDF from your kitchen table business. Being better than a system so insanely disproportionate and over-complicated that small businesses would have no hope of complying isn't particularly impressive.
      - anderspetersson 10y ago
        Yeah, it's abit insane. I spent a week or so implementing this for my saas not long ago. Hopefully this will change in 2018 for companies making less than 100k EUR/month: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/digital-single-market-modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/digital-s...
- gingerlime 10y ago
  We're B2C ...
polimorfico 10y ago
You don't need to have so many subscription plans to deal with this issue. I built https://quaderno.io https://quaderno.io to deal with this mess. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help!
- gingerlime 10y ago
  We didn't. We're going to use metadata to store VAT info. Looked at a few solutions like quaderno and Taxamo, but to be perfectly honest it feels like it adds more complexity to us than it saves us. If stripe supported tax_percent deducted from the full amount, it would make things even more elegant (and could be useful for you guys as 3rd party integrations I imagine).

codegeek 10y ago

When will you guys add the failed payment notification emails out of the box ? Been asking this for a while. Webhooks are fine but I feel like a failed payment email should be part of the core just like successful payment emails are.