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It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Some will argue that that means it's primitive, but I don't think so. The p

It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Some will argue that that means it's primitive, but I don't think so. The point about portable computers is also false. You just need to pick a machine with hardware manufactured by friendly vendors who help write drivers. Why would you want to support anyone else? Battery life? My x230 with tpm installed gets 6 hours of battery life on the stock battery. Display support? I'm using a 2560x1440 monitor with the mini displayport on my x230 right now and have had no issues with it whatsoever. Plays Quake 3 great too, no tearing. Debian Jessie. Sleep support? /etc/systemd/logind.conf HandleLidSwitch=suspend Performance issues? My system idles at 200mb. Good luck getting macOS or Windows to do that. And to preempt the bias card, I use a Mac for work and love it to death. I think most of your points were applicable in 2005. The terrain has changed and the mainstream Linux distributions are now very stable and usable daily driver systems. Linux is more than competitive, it's just not targeted at inexperienced users. Which is fine. Not everyone has the need or want to configure their computer to suit them. Some people just need a computer that works. That's why macOS and Windows exist.

irq 10y ago
6 hours battery life is bare minimum these days. I wouldn't brag about it the way you are. 2560x1400 external monitor? Doesn't sound like a HiDPI display unless it's only 15". This is another bare minimum thing I wouldn't brag about. "good sleep support" has very little to do with activating sleep by shutting the lid. Grandposter is referring to Linux's terrible reputation for successfully going to sleep and waking up without crashing. You fail to convince again. Quake 3 is an 18 year old game. How is it's performance in 2017 anything to write home about? RAM is plentiful, the fact your idle system fits in 200mb is thus unimpressive too. You, sir, yourself, sound like you have 2005 standard. (Or perhaps 1999 standards? That's when Quake 3 came out.)
- serf 10y ago
  >6 hours battery life is bare minimum these days. sad to think that 'MacBook Pro' is the bare minimum now.[0] >RAM is plentiful, the fact your idle system fits in 200mb is thus unimpressive too. not true. It is impressive that a modern machine can be ran and coordinated on such a small footprint. Ram isn't eaten up with a zero cost. In other words : memory usage indicates more than just what's available, it's a performance metric. [0]: http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/14/13616404/apple-macbook-pro-touch-bar-review-2016-13-inch-15-inch-laptop http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/14/13616404/apple-macbook-pr...
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    > sad to think that 'MacBook Pro' is the bare minimum now.[0] Yes! Actually! Older Macbooks have better battery life! Apple's quest for form factor has actually led them to cut into battery life for their top models. This is why people jokingly tell me to "upgrade to a 2014 mac." > not true. It is impressive that a modern machine can be ran and coordinated on such a small footprint. It's also impressive that Red Fraggle can balance two pickles on her nose. It's not really relevant to the claim of "performance" though. It's equally irrelevant to security. Unless you define performance as "fitting into a minimal RAM footprint." Something many memory allocators elect not to do because of the compaction cost hurting running time performance.
KirinDave 10y ago
> It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Some will argue that that means it's primitive, but I don't think so. Okay, so... let's just think about what you said for a second. Windows 10 and Mac OS X deliver extremely high end configuration with a lot of extensibility in their Window managers via first and third parties without extensive modifications. I have some unique XMonad configurations too! But if I have to be a direct contributor to my experience, I remove a lot of the credit from the people who shipped the software, because they basically sent me an SDK for making a good UI environment. > The point about portable computers is also false. You just need to pick a machine with hardware manufactured by friendly vendors who help write drivers. Why would you want to support anyone else? Yeah. "Lenovo is friendly" is not a very compelling argument. Their support and sales are miserable. Their machines are unimpressive. Their supported versions of Linux are years out of date. > Battery life? My x230 with tpm installed gets 6 hours of battery life on the stock battery. My surface book gets 6 hours of battery life even if I'm compiling android binaries regularly. Without changing anything. > HandleLidSwitch=suspend Are you actually going to pretend that sleep support isn't a major issue for many portable hardware setups? Or is this restricted to "only specific token gesture devices from specific vendors?" > Performance issues? My system idles at 200mb. Good luck getting macOS or Windows to do that. What does this have to do with performance? > The terrain has changed and the mainstream Linux distributions are now very stable and usable daily driver systems. So.. tell me... does Canonical's kernel update purge old kernel images yet, or are regular users still SOL after about 8 months of use unless they invoke a shell script they barely understand provided by stack overflow? Asking for a friend who I had to do this form. > Linux is more than competitive, If Linux is only for experienced users but both OSX and Windows can deliver to the full spectrum, then that's a superset, doge. This kind of double standard is why linux ends up getting overhyped.
- corndoge 10y ago
  at least I don't have to run 300 lines of powershell to remove telemetry and candy crush soda saga from my brand new computer checkmate
  - KirinDave 10y ago
rjbwork 10y ago
>It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Aaaaand this is why I opted away from Linux and back into the Windows world after university. I'm trying to get shit done, I want to install and go and almost never have to touch anything but my code and solving my problems - NOT solving the problems with the tools that I'm ostensibly supposed to be using to solve my problems. For all the flak it gets, since 7, Windows Just Works for me.
- flukus 10y ago
  I just had to change the same setting on windows, changing a line in a text file is much simpler than the maze of configuration dialogs I had to go through on windows. The linux way is easier, but the windows one is more discoverable, it would be nice to have an inbetween.

irq 10y ago

6 hours battery life is bare minimum these days. I wouldn't brag about it the way you are. 2560x1400 external monitor? Doesn't sound like a HiDPI display unless it's only 15". This is another bare minimum thing I wouldn't brag about. "good sleep support" has very little to do with activating sleep by shutting the lid. Grandposter is referring to Linux's terrible reputation for successfully going to sleep and waking up without crashing. You fail to convince again. Quake 3 is an 18 year old game. How is it's performance in 2017 anything to write home about? RAM is plentiful, the fact your idle system fits in 200mb is thus unimpressive too. You, sir, yourself, sound like you have 2005 standard. (Or perhaps 1999 standards? That's when Quake 3 came out.)

serf 10y ago
>6 hours battery life is bare minimum these days. sad to think that 'MacBook Pro' is the bare minimum now.[0] >RAM is plentiful, the fact your idle system fits in 200mb is thus unimpressive too. not true. It is impressive that a modern machine can be ran and coordinated on such a small footprint. Ram isn't eaten up with a zero cost. In other words : memory usage indicates more than just what's available, it's a performance metric. [0]: http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/14/13616404/apple-macbook-pro-touch-bar-review-2016-13-inch-15-inch-laptop http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/14/13616404/apple-macbook-pr...
- KirinDave 10y ago
  > sad to think that 'MacBook Pro' is the bare minimum now.[0] Yes! Actually! Older Macbooks have better battery life! Apple's quest for form factor has actually led them to cut into battery life for their top models. This is why people jokingly tell me to "upgrade to a 2014 mac." > not true. It is impressive that a modern machine can be ran and coordinated on such a small footprint. It's also impressive that Red Fraggle can balance two pickles on her nose. It's not really relevant to the claim of "performance" though. It's equally irrelevant to security. Unless you define performance as "fitting into a minimal RAM footprint." Something many memory allocators elect not to do because of the compaction cost hurting running time performance.

KirinDave 10y ago

> It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Some will argue that that means it's primitive, but I don't think so. Okay, so... let's just think about what you said for a second. Windows 10 and Mac OS X deliver extremely high end configuration with a lot of extensibility in their Window managers via first and third parties without extensive modifications. I have some unique XMonad configurations too! But if I have to be a direct contributor to my experience, I remove a lot of the credit from the people who shipped the software, because they basically sent me an SDK for making a good UI environment. > The point about portable computers is also false. You just need to pick a machine with hardware manufactured by friendly vendors who help write drivers. Why would you want to support anyone else? Yeah. "Lenovo is friendly" is not a very compelling argument. Their support and sales are miserable. Their machines are unimpressive. Their supported versions of Linux are years out of date. > Battery life? My x230 with tpm installed gets 6 hours of battery life on the stock battery. My surface book gets 6 hours of battery life even if I'm compiling android binaries regularly. Without changing anything. > HandleLidSwitch=suspend Are you actually going to pretend that sleep support isn't a major issue for many portable hardware setups? Or is this restricted to "only specific token gesture devices from specific vendors?" > Performance issues? My system idles at 200mb. Good luck getting macOS or Windows to do that. What does this have to do with performance? > The terrain has changed and the mainstream Linux distributions are now very stable and usable daily driver systems. So.. tell me... does Canonical's kernel update purge old kernel images yet, or are regular users still SOL after about 8 months of use unless they invoke a shell script they barely understand provided by stack overflow? Asking for a friend who I had to do this form. > Linux is more than competitive, If Linux is only for experienced users but both OSX and Windows can deliver to the full spectrum, then that's a superset, doge. This kind of double standard is why linux ends up getting overhyped.

corndoge 10y ago
at least I don't have to run 300 lines of powershell to remove telemetry and candy crush soda saga from my brand new computer checkmate
- KirinDave 10y ago

rjbwork 10y ago

>It's not primitive in terms of UX. You just need to spend more time configuring it. Aaaaand this is why I opted away from Linux and back into the Windows world after university. I'm trying to get shit done, I want to install and go and almost never have to touch anything but my code and solving my problems - NOT solving the problems with the tools that I'm ostensibly supposed to be using to solve my problems. For all the flak it gets, since 7, Windows Just Works for me.

flukus 10y ago
I just had to change the same setting on windows, changing a line in a text file is much simpler than the maze of configuration dialogs I had to go through on windows. The linux way is easier, but the windows one is more discoverable, it would be nice to have an inbetween.