4 ms·

I'm not perscribing a way to treat devs just pointing out the obvious situation that most devs accept as a given.

chadcmulligan 10y ago
it's a bluff. call it and watch the fun that ensues
rdiddly 10y ago
Most employees everywhere accept it as a given, as it's the definition of being an employee. You get paid for working for the employer, and that relationship could end arbitrarily. It's not complicated or really subject to debate. Even when you're your own boss, the same dynamic is there, only the carrot is profit and the stick is failure. What programmers have if anything, is the luxury of relative indifference to the ending of an employment relationship, since a new one is relatively easy to find. So maybe the "stick" is less potent. (But that doesn't mean the carrot is.)
- chadcmulligan 10y ago
  Yes, but most programmers leave money on the table as the negotiators say. Good programmers have a lot of leverage and to be scared of losing your job is unnecessary. Bad managers encourage the programmers to be scared because it works and it makes their life easier and they won't negotiate because it opens up the gates (in their mind) and maybe they don't know how (my experience). Like good programmers, good managers are in short supply, really good any skill is in short supply. In my experience ultimatums are a sign of a bad negotiator, and work or we'll sack you is an ultimatum, unfortunately it is the status quo. so my recommendation to programmers instead of reading books on frameworks read a few negotiating books and start trying it. It's quite enjoyable once you start, playing poker is a good way to start I found, you learn how to bluff. Of course if you really can't afford to lose your job then probably best to leave things alone.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > What programmers have if anything, is the luxury of relative indifference to the ending of an employment relationship, since a new one is relatively easy to find. Only if you're in SV and you've got 5 companies across the street looking for you. This is untrue for the other 99.99% of the surface of the planet.

it's a bluff. call it and watch the fun that ensues

Most employees everywhere accept it as a given, as it's the definition of being an employee. You get paid for working for the employer, and that relationship could end arbitrarily. It's not complicated or really subject to debate. Even when you're your own boss, the same dynamic is there, only the carrot is profit and the stick is failure. What programmers have if anything, is the luxury of relative indifference to the ending of an employment relationship, since a new one is relatively easy to find. So maybe the "stick" is less potent. (But that doesn't mean the carrot is.)

chadcmulligan 10y ago
Yes, but most programmers leave money on the table as the negotiators say. Good programmers have a lot of leverage and to be scared of losing your job is unnecessary. Bad managers encourage the programmers to be scared because it works and it makes their life easier and they won't negotiate because it opens up the gates (in their mind) and maybe they don't know how (my experience). Like good programmers, good managers are in short supply, really good any skill is in short supply. In my experience ultimatums are a sign of a bad negotiator, and work or we'll sack you is an ultimatum, unfortunately it is the status quo. so my recommendation to programmers instead of reading books on frameworks read a few negotiating books and start trying it. It's quite enjoyable once you start, playing poker is a good way to start I found, you learn how to bluff. Of course if you really can't afford to lose your job then probably best to leave things alone.
user5994461 10y ago
> What programmers have if anything, is the luxury of relative indifference to the ending of an employment relationship, since a new one is relatively easy to find. Only if you're in SV and you've got 5 companies across the street looking for you. This is untrue for the other 99.99% of the surface of the planet.