4 ms·

For most people, going to elite schools is a waste of money. For example, a high achieving student from a lower middle class family who goes to Harvard still pa

For most people, going to elite schools is a waste of money. For example, a high achieving student from a lower middle class family who goes to Harvard still pays the equivalent of full tuition and fees at an average state school, while they can often get a full ride at a state school. Obviously there are a lot of ways an elite education can help you, but most people don't want to be a lawyer or go into business.

wadetandy 10y ago
While it wasn't explicit in the article, it seems the focus here was much more on poor and working class communities with high performers. Students from those places able to get into top tier institutions are unlikely to be paying much if anything for their tuition.
ThomPete 10y ago
Elite schools aren't about the education but the network. Thats the actual value.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
gumby 10y ago
I suggest reading Hillbilly Elegy (J.D. Vance) which offers a counterexample. It was cheaper for him to go to Yale law school than to Ohio State.
- IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
  Law is a different story altogether though. I was talking about undergrad.
  - nsp 10y ago
    It was cheaper for me to attend both Columbia and Vanderbilt (transferred from latter to former) as undergrad than it would have been to attend any state school. No merit scholarships, purely needbased financial aid based on family income of ~$70k, and total cost for 4 years was about $20k in federal student loans. I believe the situation for law school is substantially different but am not an export.
  - gumby 10y ago
    He notes this would have been true for his undergraduate education too, but he wouldn't have considered it for social/psychological reasons. He notes that his friends are stuck in the same bind, and it was a shock for him to even consider applying to Yale.
scarmig 10y ago
No. Someone from the lower middle class would have nearly all their room, board, and tuition taken care of, with maybe 10k in low interest federal loans. It's folks in the area around ~$100k who get hosed.
- extra88 10y ago
  If your family makes $100k, they'll pay, at most, $10k/year. That's about the average for in-state tuition so hardly what I'd call getting hosed. Again, Harvard is not representative of all top private schools or event all Ivy League schools when it comes to cost of attendance.
sandworm101 10y ago
Harvard is always worth it. There are innumerable advantaged with that paticular school. Having that name on a resume keeps it near the top of most any pile. The old boys (and girls) network radiating from that school is beyond statistics. Harvard opens doors.
niftich 10y ago
It's implied in the article that the opposite is true. Certain elite schools cover tuition, room and board, and occasionally supplies for low-income students through merit-based scholarships [1] even for out-of-state students, while many state schools can only afford to grant fewer full-rides, and usually only covering the in-state price -- with out-of-state being significantly more expensive. This doesn't mean that low-income students at elite schools still won't struggle with expenses [2] or fitting in [3]. But anecdotally, when I was a top-performing high school graduate from a well-ranked high school in the mid-2000s, this information was even harder to find, so I, and many of my peers opted for state schools instead, some with scholarships. But much of this information asymmetry still exists today. This is what this effort is trying to rectify. [1] https://www.collegeraptor.com/blog/affordable-colleges/these-10-expensive-colleges-have-free-tuition-or-full-ride-scholarships-for-middle-class-families/ https://www.collegeraptor.com/blog/affordable-colleges/these... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/for-the-poor-in-the-ivy-league-a-full-ride-isnt-always-what-they-imagined/2016/05/16/5f89972a-114d-11e6-81b4-581a5c4c42df_story.html?utm_term=.e25b8ef9f6b2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/for-the-poor-... [3] https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/04/09/what-like-poor-ivy-league-school/xPtql5uzDb6r9AUFER8R0O/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/04/09/what-like-po...
- scott_s 10y ago
  You are not necessarily in disagreement with IslaDeEncanta, as they said "lower middle class", not "low-income". What exactly constitutes "middle class", and even "lower middle class" is not clear. But, I think, most would agree "low income" means not middle class, so you're probably talking about different sets of people.
  - IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
    You're right. I wasn't really talking about people in poverty/near poverty. They can benefit from the network involved with an Ivy more than just about anyone, because they usually don't have a network at all.
    - 10y ago
extra88 10y ago
Harvard isn't a good example, they offer tremendous financial aid. If your household income is less than $65,000 (which could count as lower middle class), you pay nothing. By their figures 90% of households in America would pay less for Harvard than for a state school. [0] There are many private colleges with a higher "sticker price" than Harvard but with a much lower discount rate (i.e. what the average student pays is much closer to that sticker price). [0] https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost...
- IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
  Harvard pays up to 90% of costs, which in my case was the full cost of the state school I got a scholarship to.

wadetandy 10y ago

While it wasn't explicit in the article, it seems the focus here was much more on poor and working class communities with high performers. Students from those places able to get into top tier institutions are unlikely to be paying much if anything for their tuition.

ThomPete 10y ago

Elite schools aren't about the education but the network. Thats the actual value.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

gumby 10y ago

I suggest reading Hillbilly Elegy (J.D. Vance) which offers a counterexample. It was cheaper for him to go to Yale law school than to Ohio State.

IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
Law is a different story altogether though. I was talking about undergrad.
- nsp 10y ago
  It was cheaper for me to attend both Columbia and Vanderbilt (transferred from latter to former) as undergrad than it would have been to attend any state school. No merit scholarships, purely needbased financial aid based on family income of ~$70k, and total cost for 4 years was about $20k in federal student loans. I believe the situation for law school is substantially different but am not an export.
- gumby 10y ago
  He notes this would have been true for his undergraduate education too, but he wouldn't have considered it for social/psychological reasons. He notes that his friends are stuck in the same bind, and it was a shock for him to even consider applying to Yale.

scarmig 10y ago

No. Someone from the lower middle class would have nearly all their room, board, and tuition taken care of, with maybe 10k in low interest federal loans. It's folks in the area around ~$100k who get hosed.

extra88 10y ago
If your family makes $100k, they'll pay, at most, $10k/year. That's about the average for in-state tuition so hardly what I'd call getting hosed. Again, Harvard is not representative of all top private schools or event all Ivy League schools when it comes to cost of attendance.

sandworm101 10y ago

Harvard is always worth it. There are innumerable advantaged with that paticular school. Having that name on a resume keeps it near the top of most any pile. The old boys (and girls) network radiating from that school is beyond statistics. Harvard opens doors.

niftich 10y ago

It's implied in the article that the opposite is true. Certain elite schools cover tuition, room and board, and occasionally supplies for low-income students through merit-based scholarships [1] even for out-of-state students, while many state schools can only afford to grant fewer full-rides, and usually only covering the in-state price -- with out-of-state being significantly more expensive. This doesn't mean that low-income students at elite schools still won't struggle with expenses [2] or fitting in [3]. But anecdotally, when I was a top-performing high school graduate from a well-ranked high school in the mid-2000s, this information was even harder to find, so I, and many of my peers opted for state schools instead, some with scholarships. But much of this information asymmetry still exists today. This is what this effort is trying to rectify. [1] https://www.collegeraptor.com/blog/affordable-colleges/these-10-expensive-colleges-have-free-tuition-or-full-ride-scholarships-for-middle-class-families/ https://www.collegeraptor.com/blog/affordable-colleges/these... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/for-the-poor-in-the-ivy-league-a-full-ride-isnt-always-what-they-imagined/2016/05/16/5f89972a-114d-11e6-81b4-581a5c4c42df_story.html?utm_term=.e25b8ef9f6b2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/for-the-poor-... [3] https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/04/09/what-like-poor-ivy-league-school/xPtql5uzDb6r9AUFER8R0O/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/04/09/what-like-po...

scott_s 10y ago
You are not necessarily in disagreement with IslaDeEncanta, as they said "lower middle class", not "low-income". What exactly constitutes "middle class", and even "lower middle class" is not clear. But, I think, most would agree "low income" means not middle class, so you're probably talking about different sets of people.
- IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
  You're right. I wasn't really talking about people in poverty/near poverty. They can benefit from the network involved with an Ivy more than just about anyone, because they usually don't have a network at all.
  - 10y ago

extra88 10y ago

Harvard isn't a good example, they offer tremendous financial aid. If your household income is less than $65,000 (which could count as lower middle class), you pay nothing. By their figures 90% of households in America would pay less for Harvard than for a state school. [0] There are many private colleges with a higher "sticker price" than Harvard but with a much lower discount rate (i.e. what the average student pays is much closer to that sticker price). [0] https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost...

IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
Harvard pays up to 90% of costs, which in my case was the full cost of the state school I got a scholarship to.