6 ms·

In many ways, this fake news* epidemic feels like the early days of spam/phishing emails. The news that has problems are like marketing emails: There's a vali

In many ways, this fake news* epidemic feels like the early days of spam/phishing emails. The news that has problems are like marketing emails: There's a valid question about the level of legitimacy we should afford them, but they're not the same as "sEXy MILfS SeLL1ng V1AGrA". I disagree with the article that media literacy was the problem. Quite the opposite, the lack of media literacy necessary to manage a flood of new information in the internet age is how we got here. And like spam/phishing emails, which managed to rope in even otherwise intelligent, logical people before they knew what it was, we're going to have a painful adjustment period. And some people will never quite get the memo. * When I say fake news, I'm not talking about stuff you disagree with, or poorly reported news or even sensationalist headlines. That's a different conversation. I'm talking about stuff that is made up from whole cloth. Stories like Trump personally rescuing 200 stranded marines with his private plane in Desert Storm. There is not an ounce of truth to that, and is not based on any verifiable facts. Yet it was one of the top viral stories of 2016.

booleandilemma 10y ago
Can someone provide some links to fake news articles? I feel like the term "fake news" became popular after the election yet I haven't actually seen any fake news. Maybe it's because I don't use Facebook?
- vowelless 10y ago
  > I feel like the term "fake news" became popular after the election You're not wrong. It seemed like suddenly this phrase was everywhere. https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=fake%20news https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=fak...
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    As the Republican coalition is made up of finance people and arms dealers, the Democratic coalition is made up of PR companies and management consultants (a lot like UK Labour.) They overestimated their effectiveness over a general populace, but there's no questioning their expertise in thought-leading the cosmopolitan middle class.
  - JacobJans 10y ago
    The only question is why wasn't it everywhere before the election?
    - michaelchisari 10y ago
      It most definitely was, but a heated, nearly year and a half long election provided a big economic opportunity for fake news.
    - tomp 10y ago
      Because the mainstream media thought that Trump won't win, and articles attacking him were thought to be "enough". After he won, they needed a new propaganda strategy.
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        "Fake news" was news before Trump won the election
      - DonaldFisk 10y ago
        It was a bit complacent of them, and complaining now isn't going to affect the result. The existence of Macedonian web sites with completely made-up news stories was known about well before the US presidential election, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/24/facebook-clickbait-political-news-sites-us-election-trump https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/24/facebook-... This should have been a big story before the election, but it seems to have been barely reported on.
- michaelchisari 10y ago
  Best place to check for the latest in fake news is, as always, snopes.com I can't imagine the kind of pressure they've been under the past year to debunk all these absurd viral stories.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Why do you trust snopes for political fact checking?
    - DonaldFisk 10y ago
      The point is, you shouldn't. He's generally pretty accurate though, because he actually investigates stories instead of just accepting them. And that's what you should do if you don't want to be caught out. Some stories are just urban myths (David Mikkelson's/Snopes's original focus), many are just press releases, some are planted by various PR outfits, others are planted by people with a particular agenda. Be skeptical, and investigate whenever you can.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        He? Kim LaCapria was doing a lot of the fact checking on political articles during the campaign.
        DonaldFisk 10y ago
        I'm not familiar with the other contributors. I know of David Mikkelson and Barbara Hamel from alt.folklore.urban, and snopes.com was founded by them, and was originally exclusively about urban myths (the "Archive" part).
        protomyth 10y ago
        I think one of the problems is that people who are familiar with the original contributors are transferring that trust to new staff doing the political side.
- pokemon-trainer 10y ago
  Fake news, like this? http://www.infowars.com http://www.infowars.com http://www.breitbart.com http://www.breitbart.com http://www.zerohedge.com http://www.zerohedge.com http://www.rt.com http://www.rt.com
  - cloakandswagger 10y ago
    >When I say fake news, I'm not talking about stuff you disagree with, or poorly reported news or even sensationalist headlines.
    - mtbcoder 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites
      - specialist 10y ago
        Is there a list of left wing fake news sites? Just asking...
        pokemon-trainer 10y ago
        the last left wing fake news was JFK and the missile gap, good luck.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - michaelchisari 10y ago
      Please don't quote me while defending infowars. #pizzagate and gay frogs and fema camps are the epitome of fake news.
  - alva 10y ago
    If you believe that these sources (ok, I maybe concede on infowars...) are fake news, then the machine behind this campaign has at least worked on you.
- mtbcoder 10y ago
  Just recently: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-quash-breitbart-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-...
- psyc 10y ago
  Same here. I see hysteria about it everywhere, and have yet to see a single instance of it.
  - JacobJans 10y ago
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-news-2016-top-50-articles http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-ne...
  - michaelchisari 10y ago
    This thread is full of examples.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-news-2016-top-50-articles http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-ne...
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  Here are some from the mainstream media. They're not the sort of articles that are being complained about, though. Fake news: http://web.archive.org/web/20070220194853/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/thunderer/article1120757.ece http://web.archive.org/web/20070220194853/http://www.timeson... Debunked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein%27s_alleged_shredder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein%27s_alleged_shr... Fake news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664181/JK-Rowling-joins-Labour-MPs-slam-Jeremy-Corbyn-backing-rally-attended-hard-left-activists-wearing-eradicate-right-wing-Blairite-vermin-T-shirts-days-Jo-Cox-killing.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664181/JK-Rowling-j... Debunked: https://skwawkbox.org/2016/07/27/exclusive-interview-with-the-vermin-shirt-wearer/ https://skwawkbox.org/2016/07/27/exclusive-interview-with-th... Fake news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686082/Hours-challenging-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-leadership-Angela-Eagle-s-office-BRICKED-Labour-civil-war-turns-nasty.html?ITO=1490 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686082/Hours-challe... Debunked: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/uk-labour-party-watch-t32323-8100.html http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/uk-labour-pa... Fake news: http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-heckled-over-eu-vote-its-your-fault-10324567 http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-heckled-over-eu-vote-its-yo... Debunked: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/news-agenda-set/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/news-agenda-...
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Leading up to the election Macedonian teenagers pumped out a bunch of pro Trump made up "news" for profit. They didn't care about Trump per se, they went where the money was. Pro Trump got the page views like nothing else. The stories were mainly spread through Facebook shares. https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became... >"Yes, the info in the blogs is bad, false, and misleading but the rationale is that 'if it gets the people to click on it and engage, then use it,'" said a university student in Veles[a Macedonian town] who started a US politics site
fdsaaf 10y ago
"Fake news" is itself fake news. Look at the timing: immediately after Clinton lost, a consensus emerged among the losers that we have to do something about all the "fake news" floating around the internet. The timing is a huge DNC banner in the sky. The whole fake news hullabaloo is obviously partisan. It provides a psychological relief valve that allows the left to blame its terrible loss on some external evil. It also provides the left a mental system for justifying literal censorship of the right. "Fake news" isn't about public responsibility. It's a strategy for winning the next election.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  You don't seem to be aware of the actual fake news that was spread very widely during the election. For example, an article claiming the Pope endorsed Donald Trump was shared millions of times on Facebook. This is objectively false. Literally fake. The problem of fake news is not about independent news sources, it is about active deception.
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  It's really a last ditch effort for the MSM to remain relevant by appointing themselves as the only source of "real" news. The election was hugely damaging to them, as most outlets predicted a Clinton victory with certainty, and their bias was on full display (see: the Clinton campaign giving direct orders to some journalists). The surge in "fake news" hysteria is simply a way to discredit any independent news source.
  - JacobJans 10y ago
    You don't seem to be aware of the actual fake news that was spread very widely during the election. For example, an article claiming the Pope endorsed Donald Trump was shared millions of times on Facebook. This is objectively false. Literally fake. The problem of fake news is not about independent news sources, it is about active deception.
    - PretzelFisch 10y ago

booleandilemma 10y ago

Can someone provide some links to fake news articles? I feel like the term "fake news" became popular after the election yet I haven't actually seen any fake news. Maybe it's because I don't use Facebook?

vowelless 10y ago
> I feel like the term "fake news" became popular after the election You're not wrong. It seemed like suddenly this phrase was everywhere. https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=fake%20news https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=fak...
- pessimizer 10y ago
  As the Republican coalition is made up of finance people and arms dealers, the Democratic coalition is made up of PR companies and management consultants (a lot like UK Labour.) They overestimated their effectiveness over a general populace, but there's no questioning their expertise in thought-leading the cosmopolitan middle class.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  The only question is why wasn't it everywhere before the election?
  - michaelchisari 10y ago
    It most definitely was, but a heated, nearly year and a half long election provided a big economic opportunity for fake news.
  - tomp 10y ago
    Because the mainstream media thought that Trump won't win, and articles attacking him were thought to be "enough". After he won, they needed a new propaganda strategy.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      "Fake news" was news before Trump won the election
    - DonaldFisk 10y ago
      It was a bit complacent of them, and complaining now isn't going to affect the result. The existence of Macedonian web sites with completely made-up news stories was known about well before the US presidential election, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/24/facebook-clickbait-political-news-sites-us-election-trump https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/24/facebook-... This should have been a big story before the election, but it seems to have been barely reported on.
michaelchisari 10y ago
Best place to check for the latest in fake news is, as always, snopes.com I can't imagine the kind of pressure they've been under the past year to debunk all these absurd viral stories.
- protomyth 10y ago
  Why do you trust snopes for political fact checking?
  - DonaldFisk 10y ago
    The point is, you shouldn't. He's generally pretty accurate though, because he actually investigates stories instead of just accepting them. And that's what you should do if you don't want to be caught out. Some stories are just urban myths (David Mikkelson's/Snopes's original focus), many are just press releases, some are planted by various PR outfits, others are planted by people with a particular agenda. Be skeptical, and investigate whenever you can.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      He? Kim LaCapria was doing a lot of the fact checking on political articles during the campaign.
      - DonaldFisk 10y ago
        I'm not familiar with the other contributors. I know of David Mikkelson and Barbara Hamel from alt.folklore.urban, and snopes.com was founded by them, and was originally exclusively about urban myths (the "Archive" part).
        protomyth 10y ago
        I think one of the problems is that people who are familiar with the original contributors are transferring that trust to new staff doing the political side.
pokemon-trainer 10y ago
Fake news, like this? http://www.infowars.com http://www.infowars.com http://www.breitbart.com http://www.breitbart.com http://www.zerohedge.com http://www.zerohedge.com http://www.rt.com http://www.rt.com
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  >When I say fake news, I'm not talking about stuff you disagree with, or poorly reported news or even sensationalist headlines.
  - mtbcoder 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites
    - specialist 10y ago
      Is there a list of left wing fake news sites? Just asking...
      - pokemon-trainer 10y ago
        the last left wing fake news was JFK and the missile gap, good luck.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelchisari 10y ago
    Please don't quote me while defending infowars. #pizzagate and gay frogs and fema camps are the epitome of fake news.
- alva 10y ago
  If you believe that these sources (ok, I maybe concede on infowars...) are fake news, then the machine behind this campaign has at least worked on you.
mtbcoder 10y ago
Just recently: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-quash-breitbart-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-...
psyc 10y ago
Same here. I see hysteria about it everywhere, and have yet to see a single instance of it.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-news-2016-top-50-articles http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-ne...
- michaelchisari 10y ago
  This thread is full of examples.
JacobJans 10y ago
http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-news-2016-top-50-articles http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128508/facebook-fake-ne...
DonaldFisk 10y ago
Here are some from the mainstream media. They're not the sort of articles that are being complained about, though. Fake news: http://web.archive.org/web/20070220194853/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/thunderer/article1120757.ece http://web.archive.org/web/20070220194853/http://www.timeson... Debunked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein%27s_alleged_shredder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein%27s_alleged_shr... Fake news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664181/JK-Rowling-joins-Labour-MPs-slam-Jeremy-Corbyn-backing-rally-attended-hard-left-activists-wearing-eradicate-right-wing-Blairite-vermin-T-shirts-days-Jo-Cox-killing.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664181/JK-Rowling-j... Debunked: https://skwawkbox.org/2016/07/27/exclusive-interview-with-the-vermin-shirt-wearer/ https://skwawkbox.org/2016/07/27/exclusive-interview-with-th... Fake news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686082/Hours-challenging-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-leadership-Angela-Eagle-s-office-BRICKED-Labour-civil-war-turns-nasty.html?ITO=1490 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686082/Hours-challe... Debunked: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/uk-labour-party-watch-t32323-8100.html http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/uk-labour-pa... Fake news: http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-heckled-over-eu-vote-its-your-fault-10324567 http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-heckled-over-eu-vote-its-yo... Debunked: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/news-agenda-set/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/news-agenda-...
nommm-nommm 10y ago
Leading up to the election Macedonian teenagers pumped out a bunch of pro Trump made up "news" for profit. They didn't care about Trump per se, they went where the money was. Pro Trump got the page views like nothing else. The stories were mainly spread through Facebook shares. https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became... >"Yes, the info in the blogs is bad, false, and misleading but the rationale is that 'if it gets the people to click on it and engage, then use it,'" said a university student in Veles[a Macedonian town] who started a US politics site

fdsaaf 10y ago

"Fake news" is itself fake news. Look at the timing: immediately after Clinton lost, a consensus emerged among the losers that we have to do something about all the "fake news" floating around the internet. The timing is a huge DNC banner in the sky. The whole fake news hullabaloo is obviously partisan. It provides a psychological relief valve that allows the left to blame its terrible loss on some external evil. It also provides the left a mental system for justifying literal censorship of the right. "Fake news" isn't about public responsibility. It's a strategy for winning the next election.

JacobJans 10y ago
You don't seem to be aware of the actual fake news that was spread very widely during the election. For example, an article claiming the Pope endorsed Donald Trump was shared millions of times on Facebook. This is objectively false. Literally fake. The problem of fake news is not about independent news sources, it is about active deception.
cloakandswagger 10y ago
It's really a last ditch effort for the MSM to remain relevant by appointing themselves as the only source of "real" news. The election was hugely damaging to them, as most outlets predicted a Clinton victory with certainty, and their bias was on full display (see: the Clinton campaign giving direct orders to some journalists). The surge in "fake news" hysteria is simply a way to discredit any independent news source.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  You don't seem to be aware of the actual fake news that was spread very widely during the election. For example, an article claiming the Pope endorsed Donald Trump was shared millions of times on Facebook. This is objectively false. Literally fake. The problem of fake news is not about independent news sources, it is about active deception.
  - PretzelFisch 10y ago