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The truth is irrelevant. We are in the middle of a new Maccartist era, and Russia is ( again ) the big bad bear. They ( the transnational oligarchy based in th

The truth is irrelevant. We are in the middle of a new Maccartist era, and Russia is ( again ) the big bad bear. They ( the transnational oligarchy based in the US and UK ) are trying the last power grab and Putin is trying to block them. This is the reality in a nutshell. We can discuss about the nuances, but this is a power fight. Pure and simple. Russia obviously wants to survive in this fight, so it is trying to block its dependance on the west as much as possibile, starting with the new economy ( internet ). The western powers ( the ones who rob us workers of our savings ) want to extend their reach over the entire globe and Russia + China are the last bastion against this dystopia. Yes, there are elites, oligarchs, bad guys in Russia and China too, but they are too small to be a real danger for us ( the people ). So, what you say is true, but i suspect the western media will spin it in a way to make Russia look like a dictatorship, ruled by a mad tyrant who wants to go to war against the world.

benevol 10y ago
Nobody needs Russia to understand one should not use any of the US mass surveillance machines (Facebook|Google|Twitter|LinkedIn/Microsoft|Yahoo|Apple|etc). We just needed Snowden and that we got.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Or just read a EU report from the 90's which described the same apparatus....
  - SpaceRaccoon 10y ago
    Source?
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      Report on the existence of a global system for the interception of private and commercial communications (ECHELON interception system) (2001/2098(INI)). "The existence of a global system for intercepting private and commercial communications (the ECHELON interception system) A. whereas the existence of a global system for intercepting communications, operating by means of cooperation proportionate to their capabilities among the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand under the UKUSA Agreement, is no longer in doubt; whereas it seems likely, in view of the evidence and the consistent pattern of statements from a very wide range of individuals and organisations, including American sources, that its name is in fact ECHELON, although this is a relatively minor detail." http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...
- the_d00d 10y ago
  Says the guy reading a New York Times article and posting to HN.
  - benevol 10y ago
    Not only that; he also just ate a Banana from Colombia and generally likes Earl Grey Tea - with a tiny bit of cream, though. It's nice, you should try it some time.
    - the_d00d 10y ago
      Did he post derogatory platitudes about Columbia somewhere else? I must have missed that.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hota_mazi 10y ago
> spin it in a way to make Russia look like a dictatorship, No need to spin it, it's established fact.
- tertius 10y ago
  In what way? No elections?
  - edko 10y ago
    Even Cuba and North Korea hold elections.
  - disordinary 10y ago
    Russia has elections, and while there was some evidence of voting irregularities in the last one, the main problem is the lack of exposure to competitor politicians.
  - gspetr 10y ago
    The elections are rigged. The Glorious Leader would probably still win his own election but his party would most certainly not. And after 2011 elections they've changed the Constitution to prolong their term and the President's term. He also abolished governor elections for a long time when he did not have total control over the country. Not to mention he egregiously appointed people from the Russian equivalent of Secret Service as Governors quite recently. Does not matter how unqualified you are for the job - personal loyalty is everything. Imagine what would happen in the US if such wanton cronyism took place.
matt4077 10y ago
Yes, yes... The benevolent Vladimir and the peoples' just struggle against .. LinkedIn. Personally, I just think he got annoyed by all the LinkedIn spam in Podesta's inbox. Can you imagine how long it takes to download all that via TOR?
the_d00d 10y ago
No one is making you read this. Why don't you stick to your Russian news sites? I am sure there is no propaganda and everything is exactly as they say. Ohhhh... that's right, your opening line was, "The truth is irrelevant."
- jjawssd 10y ago
  His reference to "The truth is irrelevant." is not literal. He is making an ironic comparison between the real truth and the truth that is fed to us through the media.
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't post like this here. As the topic gets more divisive, comments need to become more civil and substantive, not less.
dang 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13344370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13344370 and marked it off-topic.
throwaway420 10y ago
I think your opinion is about half-way right. To be clear, Putin isn't a great guy and Russia is very far from perfect. But they're not out to completely screw over the entire world right now like the warmongers in power in the US for the last few decades. I'm a bit more skeptical of China's motives. But I don't think Russia's interest in doing this is for noble means like protecting Russians' privacy: most likely they want this data in country for easy collection of data on people for their own spying programs as well or other not-so-good purposes. Anybody who is concerned about internet freedom shouldn't support governments mandating where servers need to be located. If the US had some moral authority here right now, they might be able to call them out over some of these issues. But here's the thing: the US has been the boy that cried wolf for the last year. We've been trying to demonize them and discredit them and accuse them of interfering with elections just so a bunch of butt-hurt political operatives can fulfill their own political goals (overturn Trump, discredit Trump, and find somebody else to blame other than their own corrupt party). If the US made an official protest or something and tried to tell Russia what they're doing is wrong, everybody over there would just laugh.

benevol 10y ago

dogma1138 10y ago
Or just read a EU report from the 90's which described the same apparatus....
- SpaceRaccoon 10y ago
  Source?
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Report on the existence of a global system for the interception of private and commercial communications (ECHELON interception system) (2001/2098(INI)). "The existence of a global system for intercepting private and commercial communications (the ECHELON interception system) A. whereas the existence of a global system for intercepting communications, operating by means of cooperation proportionate to their capabilities among the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand under the UKUSA Agreement, is no longer in doubt; whereas it seems likely, in view of the evidence and the consistent pattern of statements from a very wide range of individuals and organisations, including American sources, that its name is in fact ECHELON, although this is a relatively minor detail." http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...
the_d00d 10y ago
Says the guy reading a New York Times article and posting to HN.
- benevol 10y ago
  Not only that; he also just ate a Banana from Colombia and generally likes Earl Grey Tea - with a tiny bit of cream, though. It's nice, you should try it some time.
  - the_d00d 10y ago
    Did he post derogatory platitudes about Columbia somewhere else? I must have missed that.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hota_mazi 10y ago

> spin it in a way to make Russia look like a dictatorship, No need to spin it, it's established fact.

tertius 10y ago
In what way? No elections?
- edko 10y ago
  Even Cuba and North Korea hold elections.
- disordinary 10y ago
  Russia has elections, and while there was some evidence of voting irregularities in the last one, the main problem is the lack of exposure to competitor politicians.
- gspetr 10y ago
  The elections are rigged. The Glorious Leader would probably still win his own election but his party would most certainly not. And after 2011 elections they've changed the Constitution to prolong their term and the President's term. He also abolished governor elections for a long time when he did not have total control over the country. Not to mention he egregiously appointed people from the Russian equivalent of Secret Service as Governors quite recently. Does not matter how unqualified you are for the job - personal loyalty is everything. Imagine what would happen in the US if such wanton cronyism took place.

matt4077 10y ago

Yes, yes... The benevolent Vladimir and the peoples' just struggle against .. LinkedIn. Personally, I just think he got annoyed by all the LinkedIn spam in Podesta's inbox. Can you imagine how long it takes to download all that via TOR?

the_d00d 10y ago

No one is making you read this. Why don't you stick to your Russian news sites? I am sure there is no propaganda and everything is exactly as they say. Ohhhh... that's right, your opening line was, "The truth is irrelevant."

jjawssd 10y ago
His reference to "The truth is irrelevant." is not literal. He is making an ironic comparison between the real truth and the truth that is fed to us through the media.
dang 10y ago
Please don't post like this here. As the topic gets more divisive, comments need to become more civil and substantive, not less.

dang 10y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13344370 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13344370 and marked it off-topic.

throwaway420 10y ago

I think your opinion is about half-way right. To be clear, Putin isn't a great guy and Russia is very far from perfect. But they're not out to completely screw over the entire world right now like the warmongers in power in the US for the last few decades. I'm a bit more skeptical of China's motives. But I don't think Russia's interest in doing this is for noble means like protecting Russians' privacy: most likely they want this data in country for easy collection of data on people for their own spying programs as well or other not-so-good purposes. Anybody who is concerned about internet freedom shouldn't support governments mandating where servers need to be located. If the US had some moral authority here right now, they might be able to call them out over some of these issues. But here's the thing: the US has been the boy that cried wolf for the last year. We've been trying to demonize them and discredit them and accuse them of interfering with elections just so a bunch of butt-hurt political operatives can fulfill their own political goals (overturn Trump, discredit Trump, and find somebody else to blame other than their own corrupt party). If the US made an official protest or something and tried to tell Russia what they're doing is wrong, everybody over there would just laugh.