6 ms·

I sure hope they also plan to provide security updates for the lifetime of these fridges (10-20 years?) and make them update without any need for user interacti

by bostand 10y ago

I sure hope they also plan to provide security updates for the lifetime of these fridges (10-20 years?) and make them update without any need for user interaction.

d33 10y ago
It's more likely they limit the lifetime. ...or maybe they'll trigger a new era of IoT custom firmwares?
Inconel 10y ago
Or they could just make sure the appliances don't actually last 10-20 years. Update problem solved, just buy a new fridge.
dogma1138 10y ago
TBH since the IOT part is removable you might just buy a new panel every 10 or so years. After 20 years it's unlikely that you'll be able to connect it to anything anyhow, most Wifi 802.11a cards do not work anymore with modern routers. You can't connect a 20 year old cellphone to modern networks, and even 15 year old DSL modems can very well not work anymore in many countries, same goes for cable modems if you have a DOCSIS 1.1 modem you likely not going to be able to hook it up to a modern cable network since most of them run DOCSIS 2.0 or higher. So security updates should be mandated for the 7-10 years or so warranty period for large appliances, ideally you'll want more than that sure, but I don't think that connectivity would be common at that point.
- vic-traill 10y ago
  Your comment got me interested in what warranties are about for modern appliances (I'm cheap, I buy my appliances used). This link [0] asserts that LG warranties are diminished beyond one year, although some models continue parts-only coverage up to seven years, with a ten year parts warranty on the compressor of a particular style (so-called French Door models). The warranties are non-transferable from original owner. This [1] bottom-freezer French Door model's manual states the warrant is as described above (warranty summary table on page 55 of English manual). So we'd want to be careful about updates being supported for the warranty period - perhaps the longest term stated in the warranty, and updates required regardless of owner? [0] https://www.reference.com/home-garden/lg-s-warranty-policy-its-refrigerators-d9d16ea639defe57 https://www.reference.com/home-garden/lg-s-warranty-policy-i... [1] http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-LFX31925ST http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-LFX31925ST [edit: got rid of referral link on second ref]
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    It really depends on the country, in the UK the Sales of Goods Act guarantees you the rights to file a complaint period of 6 years. Most white goods are sold with a longer service period guarantee by the manufacturer, and those who aren't the retailer often provides more at a small fee or even "free". Samsung, LG and the rest provide upto 5 years full warranty on both parts and labor for white goods in the UK, technically it's often paid but pretty much every place you go has a promotion which gives you the extra 2-3 years for "free". http://www.samsung.com/uk/fiveyearwarranty/ http://www.samsung.com/uk/fiveyearwarranty/ That said it's important to note that the warranty period and the service period are 2 different things, the warranty period is how long the manufacturer will provide free cover to either parts labor or both, and the service period is how long would the manufacturer make parts and labor available and offer service and repair to the item. As a rule of thumb the service period is usually 2-3 times the length of the warranty period. P.S. The SOGA/CPA acts in the UK are pretty good as far as security and other software related bugs go because one of the things that need to be proven is that the problem was there at the time of purchase (or was introduced by the manufacturer) and this is very easy to do with security bugs since they are in the software, software can introduce bugs on its own (yet) this isn't a pipe that fails. I got a 5 year old router replaced based on this act recently, if the seller gives you trouble then the ombudsman services solve it pretty darn quickly (http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/ http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/) since they will answer complaints immidiatly.
gogopuppygogo 10y ago
Even if they do offer updates will they engineer the updating system properly for devices that aren't connected for a while? Sounds like an "of course they would, who wouldnt?" situation. Well, I have a Sony Bravia KDL46EX520 that I bought in June of 2011. It wasn't connected to the Internet for a few years while I used a PS3 with it. This year I moved, ditched the PS3 and decided to use the built in apps. I tried connecting to the net with both the USB dongle for WiFi and over Ethernet. The TV told me it had a connection but none of the internet features would connect. The built in software update tool also told me it couldn't connect. After messing with my network, swapping cables, swapping switches, I went online and found very little documentation about my device. Finally, as a bit of a last resort, I found a Sony support page where you can download the latest firmware and put it on a USB drive. If the USB drive is compatible with the Sony TV (no list of compatible devices is provided) then it will update the TV. I got lucky and my USB drive was compatible and the TV updated. After updating the TV's smart features work again, I can use Netflix and the software update tool says it can not find any newer version of software available. If I wasn't technical I wouldn't even think to look online for some obscure software update procedure. Sony really dropped the ball on this. So badly that even though I love this TV I went and bought a Samsung unit for another room to hedge against future situations like this.
- Zach_the_Lizard 10y ago
  My wife had a Kindle that was really out of date. It wouldn't connect to the store or find updates. I had to put an update on the device using a laptop and then restart, which then updated the device. However that was still too old, so I had to repeat the process before it was fully up to date.
  - mcbutterbunz 10y ago
    Was this the update? I remember Amazon made a pretty big attempt to notify everyone at least a month before the date but I imagine it would have been difficult to reach everyone. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201994710 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
LG appliances don't last that long.
SmkyMt 10y ago
Planned obsolescence. The greater the software/hardware complexity included - the more opportunity for obsolescence. For the manufacturer & retailer - a great component of their "business models." Not so great for consumers/environment. I'd like to see some great technical minds attack _this_ technico-societal issue.
- notduncansmith 10y ago
  Stop letting people externalize the cost of disposable goods. If you close the loop and force the market to reflect this cost, you'll get behavior that avoids it. This is a challenging issue to solve with legislation because you're adding costs somewhere. It's hard to get voter support for policies that pressure consumers, and harder to get politicians to support policies that challenge industry. To solve it from within the market itself, you'd need a corporation to leave lots of money on the table by producing longer-lasting goods at price points competitive with cheapo brands. Inventive business models can help with this, but ultimately you either eat the cost of producing better goods for the same price or you make some scientific breakthroughs.
jrs235 10y ago
Hopefully the FTC suing D-Link will encourage LG (and other manufacturers) to properly support their devices: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/ftc-sues-d-link-over-router-and-camera-security-flaws https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/ftc-sues-d-link-over-route...

by bostand 10y ago

I sure hope they also plan to provide security updates for the lifetime of these fridges (10-20 years?) and make them update without any need for user interaction.

d33 10y ago

It's more likely they limit the lifetime. ...or maybe they'll trigger a new era of IoT custom firmwares?

Inconel 10y ago

Or they could just make sure the appliances don't actually last 10-20 years. Update problem solved, just buy a new fridge.

dogma1138 10y ago

TBH since the IOT part is removable you might just buy a new panel every 10 or so years. After 20 years it's unlikely that you'll be able to connect it to anything anyhow, most Wifi 802.11a cards do not work anymore with modern routers. You can't connect a 20 year old cellphone to modern networks, and even 15 year old DSL modems can very well not work anymore in many countries, same goes for cable modems if you have a DOCSIS 1.1 modem you likely not going to be able to hook it up to a modern cable network since most of them run DOCSIS 2.0 or higher. So security updates should be mandated for the 7-10 years or so warranty period for large appliances, ideally you'll want more than that sure, but I don't think that connectivity would be common at that point.

vic-traill 10y ago
Your comment got me interested in what warranties are about for modern appliances (I'm cheap, I buy my appliances used). This link [0] asserts that LG warranties are diminished beyond one year, although some models continue parts-only coverage up to seven years, with a ten year parts warranty on the compressor of a particular style (so-called French Door models). The warranties are non-transferable from original owner. This [1] bottom-freezer French Door model's manual states the warrant is as described above (warranty summary table on page 55 of English manual). So we'd want to be careful about updates being supported for the warranty period - perhaps the longest term stated in the warranty, and updates required regardless of owner? [0] https://www.reference.com/home-garden/lg-s-warranty-policy-its-refrigerators-d9d16ea639defe57 https://www.reference.com/home-garden/lg-s-warranty-policy-i... [1] http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-LFX31925ST http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-LFX31925ST [edit: got rid of referral link on second ref]
- dogma1138 10y ago
  It really depends on the country, in the UK the Sales of Goods Act guarantees you the rights to file a complaint period of 6 years. Most white goods are sold with a longer service period guarantee by the manufacturer, and those who aren't the retailer often provides more at a small fee or even "free". Samsung, LG and the rest provide upto 5 years full warranty on both parts and labor for white goods in the UK, technically it's often paid but pretty much every place you go has a promotion which gives you the extra 2-3 years for "free". http://www.samsung.com/uk/fiveyearwarranty/ http://www.samsung.com/uk/fiveyearwarranty/ That said it's important to note that the warranty period and the service period are 2 different things, the warranty period is how long the manufacturer will provide free cover to either parts labor or both, and the service period is how long would the manufacturer make parts and labor available and offer service and repair to the item. As a rule of thumb the service period is usually 2-3 times the length of the warranty period. P.S. The SOGA/CPA acts in the UK are pretty good as far as security and other software related bugs go because one of the things that need to be proven is that the problem was there at the time of purchase (or was introduced by the manufacturer) and this is very easy to do with security bugs since they are in the software, software can introduce bugs on its own (yet) this isn't a pipe that fails. I got a 5 year old router replaced based on this act recently, if the seller gives you trouble then the ombudsman services solve it pretty darn quickly (http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/ http://www.consumer-ombudsman.org/) since they will answer complaints immidiatly.

gogopuppygogo 10y ago

Even if they do offer updates will they engineer the updating system properly for devices that aren't connected for a while? Sounds like an "of course they would, who wouldnt?" situation. Well, I have a Sony Bravia KDL46EX520 that I bought in June of 2011. It wasn't connected to the Internet for a few years while I used a PS3 with it. This year I moved, ditched the PS3 and decided to use the built in apps. I tried connecting to the net with both the USB dongle for WiFi and over Ethernet. The TV told me it had a connection but none of the internet features would connect. The built in software update tool also told me it couldn't connect. After messing with my network, swapping cables, swapping switches, I went online and found very little documentation about my device. Finally, as a bit of a last resort, I found a Sony support page where you can download the latest firmware and put it on a USB drive. If the USB drive is compatible with the Sony TV (no list of compatible devices is provided) then it will update the TV. I got lucky and my USB drive was compatible and the TV updated. After updating the TV's smart features work again, I can use Netflix and the software update tool says it can not find any newer version of software available. If I wasn't technical I wouldn't even think to look online for some obscure software update procedure. Sony really dropped the ball on this. So badly that even though I love this TV I went and bought a Samsung unit for another room to hedge against future situations like this.

Zach_the_Lizard 10y ago
My wife had a Kindle that was really out of date. It wouldn't connect to the store or find updates. I had to put an update on the device using a laptop and then restart, which then updated the device. However that was still too old, so I had to repeat the process before it was fully up to date.
- mcbutterbunz 10y ago
  Was this the update? I remember Amazon made a pretty big attempt to notify everyone at least a month before the date but I imagine it would have been difficult to reach everyone. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201994710 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

LG appliances don't last that long.

SmkyMt 10y ago

Planned obsolescence. The greater the software/hardware complexity included - the more opportunity for obsolescence. For the manufacturer & retailer - a great component of their "business models." Not so great for consumers/environment. I'd like to see some great technical minds attack _this_ technico-societal issue.

notduncansmith 10y ago
Stop letting people externalize the cost of disposable goods. If you close the loop and force the market to reflect this cost, you'll get behavior that avoids it. This is a challenging issue to solve with legislation because you're adding costs somewhere. It's hard to get voter support for policies that pressure consumers, and harder to get politicians to support policies that challenge industry. To solve it from within the market itself, you'd need a corporation to leave lots of money on the table by producing longer-lasting goods at price points competitive with cheapo brands. Inventive business models can help with this, but ultimately you either eat the cost of producing better goods for the same price or you make some scientific breakthroughs.

jrs235 10y ago

Hopefully the FTC suing D-Link will encourage LG (and other manufacturers) to properly support their devices: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/ftc-sues-d-link-over-router-and-camera-security-flaws https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/ftc-sues-d-link-over-route...