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> It's very nearly a religion. I'd argue it is a religion. The word religion means to "bind back" or "yoke" [edited], i.e. to seek an understanding of the univ

> It's very nearly a religion. I'd argue it is a religion. The word religion means to "bind back" or "yoke" [edited], i.e. to seek an understanding of the universe and our place in it. That's what physicists and cosmologists do. These disciplines also fulfill the needs of scientists for meaning and community and ritual, not unlike Christianity or Islam or whatever. Just because you might happen to believe something doesn't make it not a religion.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> The word religion means to "bind back" or "yolk", No, it doesn't. Less importantly, you mean "yoke" and not "yolk", and more importantly you are confusing the definition of a the Latin word religare from which it is believed the Latin word religio may have been derived (from which, in turn, the Middle English "religion" meaning "life under monastic vows" may have been derived) with the definition of the Modern English word "religion". The Modern English word religion doesn't mean the same thing as Latin religare, or even Latin religio, or even the original Middle English sense of religion.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  > The Modern English word religion doesn't mean the same thing as Latin religare, or even Latin religio, or even the original Middle English sense of religion. If you look at these lists of 'modern' definitions of religion, the plurality (if not the majority) of the ones from academia seem roughly aligned with the (disputed) etymology. http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/Definitions.htm http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/Definitions.htm http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/definitions.pdf http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/defi... E.g. the William James quote: "[Religion is] the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine." That's basically another way of saying what I said, and I don't see any reason not to include scientists under that umbrella. I mean even the phrase from the paper "a quantum state eternally evolving in an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space" sounds an awful lot like a conception of "the divine".
  - solipsism 10y ago
    The etymology wasn't disputed. What was disputed is the way you are playing with etymology in order to get it to fit your desired narrative. The word religion means to "bind back" or "yoke" [edited], i.e. to seek an understanding of the universe and our place in it. Here you are retconing. The religio or bond/obligation refers to a monastic vow. It has nothing to do with seeking an understanding of the universe or our place in it. Therefore, the etymology of the word religion is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
    - Alex3917 10y ago
      > Here you are retconing. The religio or bond/obligation refers to a monastic vow. I didn't realize the etymology was in dispute, so my bad. But regardless of whether religare or relegare is the etymological origin of religio, wouldn't either predate the concept of a monastic bond by centuries?
  - ImTalking 10y ago
    > E.g. the William James quote: "[Religion is] the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine." I would say his quote refers to spirituality rather than religion.
umanwizard 10y ago
Arguing based on etymology is a logical fallacy.
- ianai 10y ago
  says who other than you?
  - chillwaves 10y ago
    Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Anyone with any knowledge of linguistics? Even when the etymologies are correct (and they rarely are) they're entirely orthogonal to what words actually mean in practice today because language is only defined by its use (and is highly contextual).
- Alex3917 10y ago
  In this case, as I've documented, the way many modern religious studies people use the word is closely aligned with the etymology I gave. Whether that etymology is historically accurate has been disputed, but the fact that people use the word to mean basically the same thing as the purported etymology is not.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> The word religion means to "bind back" or "yolk", No, it doesn't. Less importantly, you mean "yoke" and not "yolk", and more importantly you are confusing the definition of a the Latin word religare from which it is believed the Latin word religio may have been derived (from which, in turn, the Middle English "religion" meaning "life under monastic vows" may have been derived) with the definition of the Modern English word "religion". The Modern English word religion doesn't mean the same thing as Latin religare, or even Latin religio, or even the original Middle English sense of religion.

Alex3917 10y ago
> The Modern English word religion doesn't mean the same thing as Latin religare, or even Latin religio, or even the original Middle English sense of religion. If you look at these lists of 'modern' definitions of religion, the plurality (if not the majority) of the ones from academia seem roughly aligned with the (disputed) etymology. http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/Definitions.htm http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/Definitions.htm http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/definitions.pdf http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/defi... E.g. the William James quote: "[Religion is] the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine." That's basically another way of saying what I said, and I don't see any reason not to include scientists under that umbrella. I mean even the phrase from the paper "a quantum state eternally evolving in an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space" sounds an awful lot like a conception of "the divine".
- solipsism 10y ago
  The etymology wasn't disputed. What was disputed is the way you are playing with etymology in order to get it to fit your desired narrative. The word religion means to "bind back" or "yoke" [edited], i.e. to seek an understanding of the universe and our place in it. Here you are retconing. The religio or bond/obligation refers to a monastic vow. It has nothing to do with seeking an understanding of the universe or our place in it. Therefore, the etymology of the word religion is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    > Here you are retconing. The religio or bond/obligation refers to a monastic vow. I didn't realize the etymology was in dispute, so my bad. But regardless of whether religare or relegare is the etymological origin of religio, wouldn't either predate the concept of a monastic bond by centuries?
- ImTalking 10y ago
  > E.g. the William James quote: "[Religion is] the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine." I would say his quote refers to spirituality rather than religion.

umanwizard 10y ago

Arguing based on etymology is a logical fallacy.

ianai 10y ago
says who other than you?
- chillwaves 10y ago
  Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.
- pluma 10y ago
  Anyone with any knowledge of linguistics? Even when the etymologies are correct (and they rarely are) they're entirely orthogonal to what words actually mean in practice today because language is only defined by its use (and is highly contextual).
Alex3917 10y ago
In this case, as I've documented, the way many modern religious studies people use the word is closely aligned with the etymology I gave. Whether that etymology is historically accurate has been disputed, but the fact that people use the word to mean basically the same thing as the purported etymology is not.