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I agree with your sentiment but is it not possible for the authors to reveal this evidence because that would undermine their intelligence capabilities?

Veratyr 10y ago
It does seem likely that that's the case however a good reason to withhold the evidence doesn't increase the likelihood that I will/should trust the report. There's no good solution to this, it's unfortunate that they proved themselves untrustworthy in the past.
- rickycook 10y ago
  and i think that's the point. they had trust, and they totally abused that to the point where anything they say that's unverifiable is questionable. this is why these organisations shouldn't lie to their own countries' people; because it will be close to impossible to regain that trust without verifiable sources and transparency that they just can't give
- ern 10y ago
  There's no good solution to this Yes there is, and it is already in place. There has been bipartisan oversight of intelligence from Congress for decades. A subset of the people's representatives with the necessary security clearances make sure that there are no Deep State shenanigans. Yes, it failed in the run up to the Iraq invasion, but it worked for decades before, during the Cold War.
  - Veratyr 10y ago
    I disagree. - Partisanship in Congress has resulted in a government so dysfunctional that it's been shut down. We can't trust people who can't even keep the government running to watch over services so accustomed to keeping everyone in the dark. - The committee may have been effective during the cold war but in recent times, the NSA was engaged in mass surveillance for while this committee was in place and it took an internal whistleblower for it to come to light. - The head of the NSA lied to Congress. The oversight committee can't oversee if they can't get the truth. You might be able to argue that this is a solution but you most definitely cannot argue that it's a good solution when it's recently been proven to be ineffective.
    - ENOTTY 10y ago
      The intelligence oversight committees have subpoena powers. They can get at anyone in any of the executive agencies who might be willing to testify and contradict their leadership. The committees also have the power to extract documents from the executive branch. The CIA torture investigation, as fraught as that was, was done by an intelligence oversight committee. CIA even created an airgapped network just for the oversight committee staffers to read CIA documents.

Veratyr 10y ago

It does seem likely that that's the case however a good reason to withhold the evidence doesn't increase the likelihood that I will/should trust the report. There's no good solution to this, it's unfortunate that they proved themselves untrustworthy in the past.

rickycook 10y ago
and i think that's the point. they had trust, and they totally abused that to the point where anything they say that's unverifiable is questionable. this is why these organisations shouldn't lie to their own countries' people; because it will be close to impossible to regain that trust without verifiable sources and transparency that they just can't give
ern 10y ago
There's no good solution to this Yes there is, and it is already in place. There has been bipartisan oversight of intelligence from Congress for decades. A subset of the people's representatives with the necessary security clearances make sure that there are no Deep State shenanigans. Yes, it failed in the run up to the Iraq invasion, but it worked for decades before, during the Cold War.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  I disagree. - Partisanship in Congress has resulted in a government so dysfunctional that it's been shut down. We can't trust people who can't even keep the government running to watch over services so accustomed to keeping everyone in the dark. - The committee may have been effective during the cold war but in recent times, the NSA was engaged in mass surveillance for while this committee was in place and it took an internal whistleblower for it to come to light. - The head of the NSA lied to Congress. The oversight committee can't oversee if they can't get the truth. You might be able to argue that this is a solution but you most definitely cannot argue that it's a good solution when it's recently been proven to be ineffective.
  - ENOTTY 10y ago
    The intelligence oversight committees have subpoena powers. They can get at anyone in any of the executive agencies who might be willing to testify and contradict their leadership. The committees also have the power to extract documents from the executive branch. The CIA torture investigation, as fraught as that was, was done by an intelligence oversight committee. CIA even created an airgapped network just for the oversight committee staffers to read CIA documents.