7 ms·

If 2017 turns out to be the year the VR starts to hit the main stream, which it could be, it will be interesting to see what Apple's response will be.

by qyv 10y ago

user5994461 10y ago
What's hitting the market? Didn't hear anything.
- qyv 10y ago
  Windows 10 Creators Update along with a slew of headsets from major PC vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) starting at $300.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    The problem I see is that VR would be great with dual 2K screens and 120+hz , but we don't have the GPUS to push that many pixels today (in any remotely affordable way...maybe quad TitanX would work). Cheaper, lower-quality VR headsets will leave a bad impression on consumers. I don't think that's the direction we should be going. I'd rather see HTC and Oculus release higher-res, faster refresh rate HMDs, but I doubt they'd do that with no single GPU able to run those today.
    - tekromancr 10y ago
      When you get to scale, you can start doing things like manufacturing displays with higher PPI near where the lenses are centered. That way you have the same number of total physical pixels but a higher resolution contributing to the image. You can further reduce the computational costs by using foveated rendering(http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/johnsny/papers/foveated.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/johnsny/papers...). You can use low-latency eye-tracking to spend more time rendering the portions of the frame that the user is actively looking at. I think the combo of falling gpu prices, and clever hardware design means we will probably see headsets with effectively higher and higher resolutions sooner rather than later.
      - zeroer 10y ago
        That's going to be difficult given how often and how fast eyes move and how sensitive they are.
        rtkwe 10y ago
        You'd need a new lens design for that really. Right now the lenses that are used aren't really good if you start looking to the side too much. When I get going in VR I generally just look with my head instead of my eyes to avoid those lens issues like chromatic aboration.
  - dagw 10y ago
    a slew of headsets from major PC vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) starting at $300. Wonder if that will help or hinder VR. Personally I think the Vive is just about the bare minimum needed for VR to barely be acceptable. If peoples first impression of VR is something less than that I doubt they'll be impressed enough to actually use VR for more than 15 minutes over the first 2 weeks after purchase.
rimantas 10y ago
It will be a year when VR hype scales back. Not the first time and not the last one.
dagw 10y ago
VR in 2017 will be 90+% about gaming, and Apple has never really cared about gaming. I doubt they'll start caring now all of a sudden.
- nashashmi 10y ago
  VR is all about immersive experiences. Apple always cares about experiences. And my thoughts are that Apple cannot bring the same Stevie vision of simplicity and use to VR, which is why they will never care about it.
  - jerf 10y ago
    I'm not sure about that. It seems to me that VR is ripe for a high-end offering that is vertically integrated and quality assured. The VR landscape is already a bit fragmented and it probably won't get less so. They'll have to stick better graphics cards in their computers, but that's doable. Probably their biggest challenge would be coming up with a headset that is "Apple-y", given that the design issues involved in creating them right now still create something fundamentally klunky. (VR is starting to take off not because anyone's figured out how to make it not klunky, but because it transitioned from intolerably klunky to tolerably klunky. Along with the latency improvements.) I'm not saying they're going to do it. But they could.
- grovegames 10y ago
  They make billions off gaming...
  - dagw 10y ago
    Fair enough. They've never cared about the sort of gaming commonly done on the sort of computers that will be able to do VR in 2017. When we get to the point where the iPad/iPhone can do high quality VR then I'll re-evaluate my statement.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
eva1984 10y ago
How? Everyone suddenly realizes they have been closet gamer for many years and comes out for VR?
ryanSrich 10y ago
VR has a massive hurdle to get over. You can't expect people to drop $600 on a headset _and_ (at least) $1k on a machine that can run it. Costs will come down, but 2017 won't be the year. I expect VR to grow, but only in the gaming market.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  You don't need a $1K machine for VR. Example: GTX 970 = $155: http://ebay.com/itm/371833128329 http://ebay.com/itm/371833128329 GTX 980 = $235: http://ebay.com/itm/291993305929 http://ebay.com/itm/291993305929 Gaming PC with GTX 970 = $540: http://ebay.com/itm/112250177638 http://ebay.com/itm/112250177638 Gaming PC with GTX 1070 = $690: http://ebay.com/itm/222369412011 http://ebay.com/itm/222369412011
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    I think ebay is the last place I'd buy pretty much anything. Especially when the price discrepancy between those listings and fully legit stores is so different. Just a personal observation.
    - imaginenore 10y ago
      Buy from the sellers with good reviews and lots of reviews, and you will be fine. And if you pay with PayPal, eBay guarantees to return your money if something goes wrong.
- qyv 10y ago
  Not according to Microsoft, VR is going to be a big push for them this year. Granted a lot can go wrong, but they are addressing all the points you just listed: * Headset Pricing: Major OEMs will be releasing headsets starting at $300 [0] * Lowering system specs for VR [1] * Not just a gaming focus: Windows 10 creators update puts an emphasis on 3D and Mixed-Reality, including a 'holographic' interface [2] [0] http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/06/microsoft-announces-299-windows-10-vr-headsets-based-hololens-technology/ http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/06/microsoft-announces-299-windo... [1] http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils-surprisingly-low-spec-requirements-vr-window-holographic/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upcoming-features https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upcoming-features
spectrum1234 10y ago
Yea. Google is taking amazing steps to kill it in this market with Daydream. I have it and for the price (diff vs non high end phone) and $80 headset is it perfect.
jclardy 10y ago
I highly doubt it will be. And this is coming from an owner of a GTX 1080 and HTC Vive. There are some really awesome games and experiences, but there is nothing that I really want to keep going back to. No Rocket League or Minecraft (Well, there is vivecraft, but minecraft in VR just isn't that much more appealing to me than the vanilla game.) PSVR might get some stuff but for now it seems like most large companies are just putting their toes in the water by giving out small tech demos. VR needs a couple of things, and they aren't going to happen in less than a year. First and most importantly, cheaper and better hardware. Daydream is nice, but at most it is good for 360 video and some cheap games. Get some head tracking in there somehow and then it becomes interesting. Also, it needs something like the oculus touch controllers or vive controllers so you can actually use your hands for things. Secondly, an actual killer app. Some kind of game that only works in VR. Something that you want to keep coming back to. Lastly - simplicity. Daydream is simple but too limited. The vive has all the features but setting up lighthouses is a pain unless you can permanently mount them. Also being tethered to your computer sucks (A solution for that is on the way, but it will only add to the cost.) Headsets are still bulky and uncomfortable to wear for long periods. My point I guess is that Apple's typical timing with things would put them entering the market in 2018 at the earliest. This is like the early Windows Phone/PalmOS days before the iPhone (But I doubt Apple will be the one releasing the "iPhone" of VR.)
- msabalau 10y ago
  Maybe. Of course killer apps don't have to spring full formed as launch titles. Visicalc arrived two and a half years after the launch of the Apple II. I don't think we can count out people coming up with something remarkable in 2017 given that there are platforms from Facebook, Google, Steam and Sony. As for myself, even without a killer app, VR has gotten me saving memories as photo spheres, in addition to pictures and videos.
- kayoone 10y ago
  Tech Journalist Robert Scoble seems to be super certain that the next iPhone this year will be AR/VR and blow everyone away, he apparently has credible sources. Personally i don't buy it at all and can't wait for everyone to tell him "i told you so"

If 2017 turns out to be the year the VR starts to hit the main stream, which it could be, it will be interesting to see what Apple's response will be.

by qyv 10y ago

If 2017 turns out to be the year the VR starts to hit the main stream, which it could be, it will be interesting to see what Apple's response will be.

user5994461 10y ago

What's hitting the market? Didn't hear anything.

qyv 10y ago
Windows 10 Creators Update along with a slew of headsets from major PC vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) starting at $300.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  The problem I see is that VR would be great with dual 2K screens and 120+hz , but we don't have the GPUS to push that many pixels today (in any remotely affordable way...maybe quad TitanX would work). Cheaper, lower-quality VR headsets will leave a bad impression on consumers. I don't think that's the direction we should be going. I'd rather see HTC and Oculus release higher-res, faster refresh rate HMDs, but I doubt they'd do that with no single GPU able to run those today.
  - tekromancr 10y ago
    When you get to scale, you can start doing things like manufacturing displays with higher PPI near where the lenses are centered. That way you have the same number of total physical pixels but a higher resolution contributing to the image. You can further reduce the computational costs by using foveated rendering(http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/johnsny/papers/foveated.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/johnsny/papers...). You can use low-latency eye-tracking to spend more time rendering the portions of the frame that the user is actively looking at. I think the combo of falling gpu prices, and clever hardware design means we will probably see headsets with effectively higher and higher resolutions sooner rather than later.
    - zeroer 10y ago
      That's going to be difficult given how often and how fast eyes move and how sensitive they are.
      - rtkwe 10y ago
        You'd need a new lens design for that really. Right now the lenses that are used aren't really good if you start looking to the side too much. When I get going in VR I generally just look with my head instead of my eyes to avoid those lens issues like chromatic aboration.
- dagw 10y ago
  a slew of headsets from major PC vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) starting at $300. Wonder if that will help or hinder VR. Personally I think the Vive is just about the bare minimum needed for VR to barely be acceptable. If peoples first impression of VR is something less than that I doubt they'll be impressed enough to actually use VR for more than 15 minutes over the first 2 weeks after purchase.

rimantas 10y ago

It will be a year when VR hype scales back. Not the first time and not the last one.

dagw 10y ago

VR in 2017 will be 90+% about gaming, and Apple has never really cared about gaming. I doubt they'll start caring now all of a sudden.

nashashmi 10y ago
VR is all about immersive experiences. Apple always cares about experiences. And my thoughts are that Apple cannot bring the same Stevie vision of simplicity and use to VR, which is why they will never care about it.
- jerf 10y ago
  I'm not sure about that. It seems to me that VR is ripe for a high-end offering that is vertically integrated and quality assured. The VR landscape is already a bit fragmented and it probably won't get less so. They'll have to stick better graphics cards in their computers, but that's doable. Probably their biggest challenge would be coming up with a headset that is "Apple-y", given that the design issues involved in creating them right now still create something fundamentally klunky. (VR is starting to take off not because anyone's figured out how to make it not klunky, but because it transitioned from intolerably klunky to tolerably klunky. Along with the latency improvements.) I'm not saying they're going to do it. But they could.
grovegames 10y ago
They make billions off gaming...
- dagw 10y ago
  Fair enough. They've never cared about the sort of gaming commonly done on the sort of computers that will be able to do VR in 2017. When we get to the point where the iPad/iPhone can do high quality VR then I'll re-evaluate my statement.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

eva1984 10y ago

How? Everyone suddenly realizes they have been closet gamer for many years and comes out for VR?

ryanSrich 10y ago

VR has a massive hurdle to get over. You can't expect people to drop $600 on a headset _and_ (at least) $1k on a machine that can run it. Costs will come down, but 2017 won't be the year. I expect VR to grow, but only in the gaming market.

imaginenore 10y ago
You don't need a $1K machine for VR. Example: GTX 970 = $155: http://ebay.com/itm/371833128329 http://ebay.com/itm/371833128329 GTX 980 = $235: http://ebay.com/itm/291993305929 http://ebay.com/itm/291993305929 Gaming PC with GTX 970 = $540: http://ebay.com/itm/112250177638 http://ebay.com/itm/112250177638 Gaming PC with GTX 1070 = $690: http://ebay.com/itm/222369412011 http://ebay.com/itm/222369412011
- wavefunction 10y ago
  I think ebay is the last place I'd buy pretty much anything. Especially when the price discrepancy between those listings and fully legit stores is so different. Just a personal observation.
  - imaginenore 10y ago
    Buy from the sellers with good reviews and lots of reviews, and you will be fine. And if you pay with PayPal, eBay guarantees to return your money if something goes wrong.
qyv 10y ago
Not according to Microsoft, VR is going to be a big push for them this year. Granted a lot can go wrong, but they are addressing all the points you just listed: * Headset Pricing: Major OEMs will be releasing headsets starting at $300 [0] * Lowering system specs for VR [1] * Not just a gaming focus: Windows 10 creators update puts an emphasis on 3D and Mixed-Reality, including a 'holographic' interface [2] [0] http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/06/microsoft-announces-299-windows-10-vr-headsets-based-hololens-technology/ http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/06/microsoft-announces-299-windo... [1] http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils-surprisingly-low-spec-requirements-vr-window-holographic/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upcoming-features https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upcoming-features

spectrum1234 10y ago

Yea. Google is taking amazing steps to kill it in this market with Daydream. I have it and for the price (diff vs non high end phone) and $80 headset is it perfect.

jclardy 10y ago

I highly doubt it will be. And this is coming from an owner of a GTX 1080 and HTC Vive. There are some really awesome games and experiences, but there is nothing that I really want to keep going back to. No Rocket League or Minecraft (Well, there is vivecraft, but minecraft in VR just isn't that much more appealing to me than the vanilla game.) PSVR might get some stuff but for now it seems like most large companies are just putting their toes in the water by giving out small tech demos. VR needs a couple of things, and they aren't going to happen in less than a year. First and most importantly, cheaper and better hardware. Daydream is nice, but at most it is good for 360 video and some cheap games. Get some head tracking in there somehow and then it becomes interesting. Also, it needs something like the oculus touch controllers or vive controllers so you can actually use your hands for things. Secondly, an actual killer app. Some kind of game that only works in VR. Something that you want to keep coming back to. Lastly - simplicity. Daydream is simple but too limited. The vive has all the features but setting up lighthouses is a pain unless you can permanently mount them. Also being tethered to your computer sucks (A solution for that is on the way, but it will only add to the cost.) Headsets are still bulky and uncomfortable to wear for long periods. My point I guess is that Apple's typical timing with things would put them entering the market in 2018 at the earliest. This is like the early Windows Phone/PalmOS days before the iPhone (But I doubt Apple will be the one releasing the "iPhone" of VR.)

msabalau 10y ago
Maybe. Of course killer apps don't have to spring full formed as launch titles. Visicalc arrived two and a half years after the launch of the Apple II. I don't think we can count out people coming up with something remarkable in 2017 given that there are platforms from Facebook, Google, Steam and Sony. As for myself, even without a killer app, VR has gotten me saving memories as photo spheres, in addition to pictures and videos.
kayoone 10y ago
Tech Journalist Robert Scoble seems to be super certain that the next iPhone this year will be AR/VR and blow everyone away, he apparently has credible sources. Personally i don't buy it at all and can't wait for everyone to tell him "i told you so"