8 ms·

The company you say is in "total disarray" still made $45.7bn in profit in 2016, and grew its share price by 10%. Those are the facts. Outside of the technolog

The company you say is in "total disarray" still made $45.7bn in profit in 2016, and grew its share price by 10%. Those are the facts. Outside of the technology bubble, most people don't know or care about many of the issues you cited, or what "loyal followers" on internet forums think. Major investors, who are the only people who could force Cook out, care about the numbers. And while Apple's revenue declined this year, it's still insanely good by any reasonable, and unreasonable, measure. Plus, it comes on the back of many years of growth, much of which was delivered under Cook's leadership. If there's a continued decline of revenue and profits, then you might see Cook forced out in a couple of years, but to ask why he hasn't been forced out already only demonstrates a total lack of understanding of how business works.

liveify 10y ago
I completely agree. Very few people outside of HN and r/apple that I have talked to have negative opinions of what Apple is doing. I see no evidence that Apple's products are becoming less popular. The iPhone is still the go to smartphone that I would recommend to anyone. I have switched back and forth between iPhone and Android since they came out, but I would never recommend an Android phone to a casual user. If they want the newest phone they get the iPhone 7. If they just want a phone the iPhone SE is a great phone for the price. It will last years and be secure with continued security software updates. The Apple Watch is the only smartwatch I've seen bought en mass by non-techies. The MacBooks are still the go to laptop for college students that can afford it. With the exception of some engineering circles where the Surface is popular, MacBooks are ubiquitous. And while the AirPods had a delayed launch, they are in my opinion an amazing first gen Apple product. The ease of use and quality of the Bluetooth connection is not something I've experienced in Bluetooth before.
- guelo 10y ago
  Annecdotally, I know 2 long time iPhone users who I helped switch over to a Google Pixel and both of them have been happy. I've been surprised how little they complained or asked questions about anything after 5 minutes of android training.
- aetherson 10y ago
  You don't think that declining sales and revenues are evidence that Apple's products are becoming less popular?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- dageshi 10y ago
  Up until recently Apple was sort of in a league all of its own, it had an aura about it of what I would perhaps describe as "justified hubris", before Apple perhaps only Microsoft has had that same kind of aura when it was firing on all cylinders. I think people are sensing that Apple has passed the top of its curve and is now losing momentum, the hubris isn't really justified anymore. Apple will still be a hugely profitable and influential company, but it's no longer in a league all of its own.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Agreed. Though for security of personal information it's still leagues above Android and Windows.
- StillBored 10y ago
  For certain categories of problem it seems the general public is ignorant. OTOH, the headphone jack seems to be the talk of my non technical iphone associates, and more than one regular upgrader has mentioned they aren't ready to upgrade their iphone 6's because of it. My wife is the apple user in the house, and I think she is indicative of a lot of them at this point. She chooses apple because they are cool status symbols and her friends have them. The issues with the iphone7 modem (yah I went out of my way for the qualcomm and then had an entertaining conversation with her about it) and headphone jack were completely off her radar. The apparent short life of her iphone 5s battery, and the weird wifi issues with the ipads after OS upgrades/etc don't enter her head as problems with the devices.
sbuttgereit 10y ago
Your comments aren't unfair nor even incorrect. However, there is something systemically wrong inside of Apple that those with a gift for "hyperbole" might call total disarray. Yes, I would be happy to take their recent results in my own business and wouldn't at all be disappointed. You could also point out that management may well be taking the long view of a post-Jobs Apple and giving Cook room to find that Apple of the future... as opposed to being driven purely by short term results/quarterly reports: something that I think many on HN condemn in other contexts. Still... think of post-Gates Microsoft. They had huge momentum (which showed in the financials as well), but everybody including me thought there was something deeply wrong with Microsoft, too. They were coasting on that momentum and doing very little aside from coddling their more conservative customers... just as you suggest Apple can get away with. Microsoft was losing their leading position and was getting on the slow death-march path. They may have turned that around while they still could. No doubt, casting MAJOR screw-ups aside, Apple will not die as a company anytime soon. Apple and Cook are still completely in position to turn things around. But atrophy and possibility of ending-up as some sort of also-ran... that's not impossible and it's also fair to point that out.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Your comments aren't unfair nor even incorrect. However, there is something systemically wrong inside of Apple that those with a gift for "hyperbole" might call total disarray. Yes, but then again, those without a gift for prophecy had called Apple's impeding DOOM several times a year since 2001.
  - guelo 10y ago
    That doesn't mean they'll be wrong forever.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      No, a broken clock is also right twice a day.
  - aetherson 10y ago
qyv 10y ago
Many of these same type of things were said about Microsoft during the early Ballmer era. His emphasis of the bottom line over vision and innovation inflicted a lot of damage that Microsoft is still recovering from. Yes, total disarray is an exaggeration, Apple isn't going anywhere, but there are a lot of parallels with Ballmer's Microsoft.
ProAm 10y ago
> The company you say is in "total disarray" still made $45.7bn in profit in 2016, and grew its share price by 10%. Microsoft was very profitable with Ballmer at the helm, but it can be argued he put the company in a very bad position that took them significant effort to fix and right the ship.
- tybit 10y ago
  Very profitable? Their stock flatlined for a decade while it's peers sky rocketed.
  - ProAm 10y ago
    The stock was flat but they were very profitable. Look here: "Microsoft was very profitable during Steve Ballmer's tenure. As you can see from the chart, revenue doubled and net income doubled as well. Nearly $19 Billion in net income from $62 Billion in revenue is nothing to sneeze at, and that kind of growth is not easy for a company that large." [1] [1] https://www.quora.com/Did-microsoft-make-a-profit-under-steve-ballmer https://www.quora.com/Did-microsoft-make-a-profit-under-stev...
omouse 10y ago
You can make profit for a number of years before things go badly; profits are a lagging indicator.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

liveify 10y ago

I completely agree. Very few people outside of HN and r/apple that I have talked to have negative opinions of what Apple is doing. I see no evidence that Apple's products are becoming less popular. The iPhone is still the go to smartphone that I would recommend to anyone. I have switched back and forth between iPhone and Android since they came out, but I would never recommend an Android phone to a casual user. If they want the newest phone they get the iPhone 7. If they just want a phone the iPhone SE is a great phone for the price. It will last years and be secure with continued security software updates. The Apple Watch is the only smartwatch I've seen bought en mass by non-techies. The MacBooks are still the go to laptop for college students that can afford it. With the exception of some engineering circles where the Surface is popular, MacBooks are ubiquitous. And while the AirPods had a delayed launch, they are in my opinion an amazing first gen Apple product. The ease of use and quality of the Bluetooth connection is not something I've experienced in Bluetooth before.

guelo 10y ago
Annecdotally, I know 2 long time iPhone users who I helped switch over to a Google Pixel and both of them have been happy. I've been surprised how little they complained or asked questions about anything after 5 minutes of android training.
aetherson 10y ago
You don't think that declining sales and revenues are evidence that Apple's products are becoming less popular?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
dageshi 10y ago
Up until recently Apple was sort of in a league all of its own, it had an aura about it of what I would perhaps describe as "justified hubris", before Apple perhaps only Microsoft has had that same kind of aura when it was firing on all cylinders. I think people are sensing that Apple has passed the top of its curve and is now losing momentum, the hubris isn't really justified anymore. Apple will still be a hugely profitable and influential company, but it's no longer in a league all of its own.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Agreed. Though for security of personal information it's still leagues above Android and Windows.
StillBored 10y ago
For certain categories of problem it seems the general public is ignorant. OTOH, the headphone jack seems to be the talk of my non technical iphone associates, and more than one regular upgrader has mentioned they aren't ready to upgrade their iphone 6's because of it. My wife is the apple user in the house, and I think she is indicative of a lot of them at this point. She chooses apple because they are cool status symbols and her friends have them. The issues with the iphone7 modem (yah I went out of my way for the qualcomm and then had an entertaining conversation with her about it) and headphone jack were completely off her radar. The apparent short life of her iphone 5s battery, and the weird wifi issues with the ipads after OS upgrades/etc don't enter her head as problems with the devices.

sbuttgereit 10y ago

Your comments aren't unfair nor even incorrect. However, there is something systemically wrong inside of Apple that those with a gift for "hyperbole" might call total disarray. Yes, I would be happy to take their recent results in my own business and wouldn't at all be disappointed. You could also point out that management may well be taking the long view of a post-Jobs Apple and giving Cook room to find that Apple of the future... as opposed to being driven purely by short term results/quarterly reports: something that I think many on HN condemn in other contexts. Still... think of post-Gates Microsoft. They had huge momentum (which showed in the financials as well), but everybody including me thought there was something deeply wrong with Microsoft, too. They were coasting on that momentum and doing very little aside from coddling their more conservative customers... just as you suggest Apple can get away with. Microsoft was losing their leading position and was getting on the slow death-march path. They may have turned that around while they still could. No doubt, casting MAJOR screw-ups aside, Apple will not die as a company anytime soon. Apple and Cook are still completely in position to turn things around. But atrophy and possibility of ending-up as some sort of also-ran... that's not impossible and it's also fair to point that out.

coldtea 10y ago
>Your comments aren't unfair nor even incorrect. However, there is something systemically wrong inside of Apple that those with a gift for "hyperbole" might call total disarray. Yes, but then again, those without a gift for prophecy had called Apple's impeding DOOM several times a year since 2001.
- guelo 10y ago
  That doesn't mean they'll be wrong forever.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    No, a broken clock is also right twice a day.
- aetherson 10y ago

qyv 10y ago

Many of these same type of things were said about Microsoft during the early Ballmer era. His emphasis of the bottom line over vision and innovation inflicted a lot of damage that Microsoft is still recovering from. Yes, total disarray is an exaggeration, Apple isn't going anywhere, but there are a lot of parallels with Ballmer's Microsoft.

ProAm 10y ago

> The company you say is in "total disarray" still made $45.7bn in profit in 2016, and grew its share price by 10%. Microsoft was very profitable with Ballmer at the helm, but it can be argued he put the company in a very bad position that took them significant effort to fix and right the ship.

tybit 10y ago
Very profitable? Their stock flatlined for a decade while it's peers sky rocketed.
- ProAm 10y ago
  The stock was flat but they were very profitable. Look here: "Microsoft was very profitable during Steve Ballmer's tenure. As you can see from the chart, revenue doubled and net income doubled as well. Nearly $19 Billion in net income from $62 Billion in revenue is nothing to sneeze at, and that kind of growth is not easy for a company that large." [1] [1] https://www.quora.com/Did-microsoft-make-a-profit-under-steve-ballmer https://www.quora.com/Did-microsoft-make-a-profit-under-stev...

omouse 10y ago

You can make profit for a number of years before things go badly; profits are a lagging indicator.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]