5 ms·

Your first reason for him being a bad CEO is a $300 book. A lot of companies have these type of books which are also costly, I don't think it's a good idea to s

by usaphp 10y ago

Your first reason for him being a bad CEO is a $300 book. A lot of companies have these type of books which are also costly, I don't think it's a good idea to start argument about him being a bad CEO with a book example.

jameskegel 10y ago
No, it's a fine example, and makes a succinct point.
- pducks32 10y ago
  It's a hobby project that keeps designers feel valued and most companies do it. Some release it, some don't. But they all do it.
  - hcoyote 10y ago
    Honestly, this cost is on par with other book-based photographic collections from small, bespoke printing companies (Such as Lodima Press). The real question is how many copies did they run. This will determine whether or not the cost is justified for the value you get from it. As an example, a few years ago, I purchased a copy of Edward Weston's "Life Work" from Lodima when it was released. I think I paid ~$150 for it. They're now selling it for $1000 per copy because they have a limited number left. If Apple printed thousands and thousands of these, then I doubt the cost is justified. But if it was a limited run, say less than a few thousand? Seems appropriate to me.
    - user837387 10y ago
      >>If Apple printed thousands and thousands of these, then I doubt the cost is justified. But if it was a limited run, say less than a few thousand? Seems appropriate to me. What bothers me out of this discussion is that people are getting upset about the price they choose to sell the book at. People feel way too entitled. They could sell it at a million bucks each and if people were willing to pay that then why would anybody complain. Unless you feel you somehow have a God given right to decide how people sell their own products.
      - hcoyote 10y ago
        I don't have a problem with their pricing decisions. It works for some people, it doesn't work for others. I was just noting that the pricing mirrors what I've seen in the photo/art book world.
- jonknee 10y ago
  What point does it make? I am not interested in buying the book, but to me it suggests that Apple highly values design and its design team. I think the book is something Steve Jobs would have loved.
  - Retric 10y ago
    Would have loved, Sure. Would have done, No.
    - hcoyote 10y ago
      The book took 8 years to make. He died in Oct 2011. He probably knew about it.
      - Retric 10y ago
        The problem is not the book, the problem is the pricing for the book which he had nothing to do with. At 30$ or 300$ the company is not going to get meaningful revenue, or likely enough to pay the cost of production back. So, the pricing needs to relate to something else.
        jonknee 10y ago
        The point of the book wasn't to juice the "Other revenue" line in their quarterly report, it was to produce a high-end art book of their design work. It actually makes more sense as a high dollar item considering that allows it to be made with high quality materials and become a collectors item. At $30 it would probably be junk, uninteresting to collectors/designers and the mass market alike.
        Retric 10y ago
        The argument is they could use the same materials and sell it for 30$. At 300$ they are already going to be out millions. So, the difference in price is just not going to be meaningful until they start selling 30,000+ copies. The bugatti veyron for example sells for ~$1.5 million, but it costs more than twice that to make ($6.25 million). However, as VW only sold ~50 veyron's per year it's was just not an issue for VW compared to the 10.14 million cars they sold per year.
ohyoutravel 10y ago
I took the order of arguments in this case to be random, not in order of strength. While I agree that it's generally best to lead or finish on the strongest arguments, it seems pretty clear here that these are randomly ordered.
- coldtea 10y ago
  I think they were also randomly selected from the list of all possible english sentences.
rackforms 10y ago
It's perception I'm talking about, the real damage being done by releasing this type of tone-deaf product at the same time good, hardworking and long-time users can no longer afford their products.
- pyrophane 10y ago
  That book is really more about Jony Ive's legacy as a designer than anything else. It is mostly going to be appearing in libraries and the offices of other designers, not on people's coffee tables. I think the "perception" you are talking about is just from gossipy tech blogs and people on Internet forums who have made a hobby out of getting upset about things like this.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> I think the "perception" you are talking about is just from gossipy tech blogs and people on Internet forums who have made a hobby out of getting upset about things like this. Well a lot of these things have made the rounds on late night talk shows, which are watched by normal people (on TV and on viral YouTube clips). Colbert made fun of the book [1]. Conan made fun of the airpods [2] and even has an Apple Spoofs playlist [3]. Kimmel made fun of Apple fans [4] a few months ago. While Conan doesn't get big TV ratings, his Youtube videos do get a lot of views. I'm guessing the reason why Fallon doesn't do as many spoofs is because he is in some iPhone ads. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63_N63Qy-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63_N63Qy-w [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wImaGRkNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wImaGRkNY [3] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVL8S3lUHf0RCRdtpshOa53HVKhd9g3VY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVL8S3lUHf0RCRdtpshOa... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfxmhZD-IZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfxmhZD-IZk
- artimaeis 10y ago
  " "users can no longer afford their products" Er, what? Going back to the last iPhone that fell mostly in the Jobs era - the 4S - it was priced at $599 for the 16GB version. Compare that to the iPhone SE which starts at $399 for the 16GB version. Or the iPhone 7 which starts at $649 for the 32GB version. I'm not sure how users who could once afford the products no longer can.

by usaphp 10y ago

jameskegel 10y ago

No, it's a fine example, and makes a succinct point.

pducks32 10y ago
It's a hobby project that keeps designers feel valued and most companies do it. Some release it, some don't. But they all do it.
- hcoyote 10y ago
  Honestly, this cost is on par with other book-based photographic collections from small, bespoke printing companies (Such as Lodima Press). The real question is how many copies did they run. This will determine whether or not the cost is justified for the value you get from it. As an example, a few years ago, I purchased a copy of Edward Weston's "Life Work" from Lodima when it was released. I think I paid ~$150 for it. They're now selling it for $1000 per copy because they have a limited number left. If Apple printed thousands and thousands of these, then I doubt the cost is justified. But if it was a limited run, say less than a few thousand? Seems appropriate to me.
  - user837387 10y ago
    >>If Apple printed thousands and thousands of these, then I doubt the cost is justified. But if it was a limited run, say less than a few thousand? Seems appropriate to me. What bothers me out of this discussion is that people are getting upset about the price they choose to sell the book at. People feel way too entitled. They could sell it at a million bucks each and if people were willing to pay that then why would anybody complain. Unless you feel you somehow have a God given right to decide how people sell their own products.
    - hcoyote 10y ago
      I don't have a problem with their pricing decisions. It works for some people, it doesn't work for others. I was just noting that the pricing mirrors what I've seen in the photo/art book world.
jonknee 10y ago
What point does it make? I am not interested in buying the book, but to me it suggests that Apple highly values design and its design team. I think the book is something Steve Jobs would have loved.
- Retric 10y ago
  Would have loved, Sure. Would have done, No.
  - hcoyote 10y ago
    The book took 8 years to make. He died in Oct 2011. He probably knew about it.
    - Retric 10y ago
      The problem is not the book, the problem is the pricing for the book which he had nothing to do with. At 30$ or 300$ the company is not going to get meaningful revenue, or likely enough to pay the cost of production back. So, the pricing needs to relate to something else.
      - jonknee 10y ago
        The point of the book wasn't to juice the "Other revenue" line in their quarterly report, it was to produce a high-end art book of their design work. It actually makes more sense as a high dollar item considering that allows it to be made with high quality materials and become a collectors item. At $30 it would probably be junk, uninteresting to collectors/designers and the mass market alike.
        Retric 10y ago
        The argument is they could use the same materials and sell it for 30$. At 300$ they are already going to be out millions. So, the difference in price is just not going to be meaningful until they start selling 30,000+ copies. The bugatti veyron for example sells for ~$1.5 million, but it costs more than twice that to make ($6.25 million). However, as VW only sold ~50 veyron's per year it's was just not an issue for VW compared to the 10.14 million cars they sold per year.

ohyoutravel 10y ago

I took the order of arguments in this case to be random, not in order of strength. While I agree that it's generally best to lead or finish on the strongest arguments, it seems pretty clear here that these are randomly ordered.

coldtea 10y ago
I think they were also randomly selected from the list of all possible english sentences.

rackforms 10y ago

It's perception I'm talking about, the real damage being done by releasing this type of tone-deaf product at the same time good, hardworking and long-time users can no longer afford their products.

pyrophane 10y ago
That book is really more about Jony Ive's legacy as a designer than anything else. It is mostly going to be appearing in libraries and the offices of other designers, not on people's coffee tables. I think the "perception" you are talking about is just from gossipy tech blogs and people on Internet forums who have made a hobby out of getting upset about things like this.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> I think the "perception" you are talking about is just from gossipy tech blogs and people on Internet forums who have made a hobby out of getting upset about things like this. Well a lot of these things have made the rounds on late night talk shows, which are watched by normal people (on TV and on viral YouTube clips). Colbert made fun of the book [1]. Conan made fun of the airpods [2] and even has an Apple Spoofs playlist [3]. Kimmel made fun of Apple fans [4] a few months ago. While Conan doesn't get big TV ratings, his Youtube videos do get a lot of views. I'm guessing the reason why Fallon doesn't do as many spoofs is because he is in some iPhone ads. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63_N63Qy-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63_N63Qy-w [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wImaGRkNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wImaGRkNY [3] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVL8S3lUHf0RCRdtpshOa53HVKhd9g3VY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVL8S3lUHf0RCRdtpshOa... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfxmhZD-IZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfxmhZD-IZk
artimaeis 10y ago
" "users can no longer afford their products" Er, what? Going back to the last iPhone that fell mostly in the Jobs era - the 4S - it was priced at $599 for the 16GB version. Compare that to the iPhone SE which starts at $399 for the 16GB version. Or the iPhone 7 which starts at $649 for the 32GB version. I'm not sure how users who could once afford the products no longer can.