6 ms·

Seems like an example of supply and demand working as intended.

• sp332 10y ago
  This is hardly a free market. The government has a monopoly on building roads and they unilaterally set the prices.
  • mikeash 10y ago
    Prices are set dynamically based on usage, and there is competition from the free lanes that run parallel and serve the same locations.
  • qntty 10y ago
    The principle of supply and demand can exist outside of the context of a free market. As long as there's some mechanism to set the price based on a balance of the two variables.
    • sp332 10y ago
      But public roads are usually for the use of the public. At most there's a difference of a few dollars if you're just traveling a short distance. This arrangement just seems to be milking people for money, and I don't want to see public spaces go in this direction.
  • ohyoutravel 10y ago
    They built those roads specifically to be express lanes, and fund them via these tolls. Similar to the Triboro Bridge in New York, built to help commuters get to Manhattan faster/MUCH easier and infeasible to build without charging tolls.
  • dmicah 10y ago
    These toll lanes were built and are managed by an Australian company, Transurban. In the linked article it mentions that sensors in the toll lanes adjust prices relative to demand.
  • nommm-nommm 10y ago
    ??? There's plenty of private roads and bridges.
  • pekingkuck 10y ago
    The 495 HOT Lanes were built through a public/private partnership. The private consortium, who paid for the expansion, received toll collecting rights from Virginia for the next 80 years. A for-profit has absolute control over this regressive tax... "The companies, which will finance all but $409 million of the project, have an 80-year agreement that will allow the partners to collect tolls from motorists who use the lanes." [1] [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/20/AR2007122002733.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12...
    • sp332 10y ago
      Ok, so a company has been delegated the authority to levy tolls. But the authority comes from the government.
• mikeash 10y ago
  It wasn't working 100%, at least. The dynamic pricing is supposed to keep traffic moving at a speed of at least 45MPH. I was going southbound past them at Tysons Corner and they were nearly at a standstill. Which means these high prices were too low!
  • 4ndr3vv 10y ago
    I know nothing about this implementation, but I'd be extremely interested into how the pricing model adjusts itself. I'd assume there has to be some delay built into the system to measure the impact that price increases have on user take up and lane speed, however it seems in this case that when delays increase faster than the model can adjust its pricing you get to a point where it fails to work (ie nearly at a standstill)
    • mikeash 10y ago
      I would be interested to know as well. It certainly seems difficult in some cases, and this is far from the first time I've seen the express lanes below the "guaranteed" speed. It usually works pretty well, but not always.
• ohyoutravel 10y ago
  Yes. $30 seems like a lot to me for this and it's kind of shocking, but we're not talking about price gouging for food, water, or some basic necessity. We're raising the price of toll lanes specifically built as express lanes and funded through these tolls. They just get people home faster than the regular lanes. Additionally, I suspect that in these conditions if they charged the regular prices, so many people would take the express lanes that they would slow to a crawl like the rest of the road, frustrating their purpose.
  • denzil_correa 10y ago
    > They just get people home faster than the regular lanes. OR - the other people who can't use these lanes get to their destination slower?
    • aninhumer 10y ago
      No, the express lane also makes the non-express lanes faster than they would be otherwise, by increasing overall capacity (although that's ignoring induced traffic).
      • denzil_correa 10y ago
        Yes and why is $30 the right price to do so?
  • jburwell 10y ago
    As someone who lives in the region, the lanes are complete gouging. They diverted a tremendous amount of tax dollars to build them, and then turned them over to a private company to collect these dynamic tolls. Part of the deal is that cars with 3+ people don't pay tolls. The 495 corridor is one of the worst traffic areas in the United States -- the number of lanes needs to be doubled to support current demand. In past snow storms, it has jammed up so severely that cars ran out of gas sitting in traffic. When severe weather occurs, Virginia needs to eliminate the tolls and open up as many lanes as possible. We paid for the lanes, and we should be able to use them when we need them most.
• SamBam 10y ago
  Yup. The inheritors of wealth and other rich people get to ride fast on nearly-empty roads, and the rest of the population has to be crammed onto fewer, slower roads, causing a positive feedback loop. Works just as intended, provided you're one of the ones who can afford it. Snark aside, "supply and demand" fails to fairly set price when the demand is inelastic -- e.g. when people need to drive home in the snow after work, and there are limited other options. As for the toll road being built "for that purpose," remember when the government was supposed to build roads for all it citizens, not just those who could afford it?
  • denzil_correa 10y ago
    > Snark aside, "supply and demand" fails to fairly set price when the demand is inelastic I wish more people could peek under this hood rather than simply posthoc rationalize every price increase with "demand-supply" theory. For the concept to work, you need to have many things in "control". Therefore, I simply ask everyone who uses that argument to justify me that price that they rationalize. In other words, you can use the "demand-supply" argument for any price $60, or $100. How is $30 the actual price that demand-supply has set?
    • yeldarb 10y ago
      The point of the supply/demand curve is that there is a price at which revenue is optimized. In this case $30 is the price they've determined they will make the most money. Charge more and too many customers will drop out to justify the increase. Charge less and you're leaving money on the table.
      • SamBam 10y ago
        > where they've determined they will make the most money But is that supposed to be the goal of surge-pricing on a public, state-built road? Or is it supposed to be about easing congestion? If the aim of the government was to always find the price at which they could make the most money possible, we'd live in a very different place.
• slashcom 10y ago
  It wasn't due to demand though. It was due to price being calculated by sensors that detect lane speed. The lane was ridiculously slowed by two snow trucks, so it computed a high price. That said, it's probably reasonable snow trucks get extremely high priority.
• SonicSoul 10y ago
  supply and demand can also dictate a 5c/hr wage. or 10k for a black market kidney. doesn't mean it's the end all truth or that it's the best way to go