5 ms·

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

gbil 10y ago
Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.
- jordanb 10y ago
  How long does a DPF last? Replacing a catalytic converter is a rare maintenance item on a car. Most of the time they last the lifetime of the vehicle. In fact the only person I know who had to replace one had it stolen from under his car while he was parked on a city street.
  - gbil 10y ago
    It depends on many things, like car type, usage, maintenance (or lack of it) and for sure on what is the lifetime of a car? How many km/mi? For you it might be eg. 300k but have you checked the manufacturer's specs?
  - Sarki 10y ago
    It depends on many aspects (car usage, quality, etc.) I recently bought a used diesel car (10 years old, 150k KM), the DPF was almost dead. Needless to say that is wasn't a pleasant surprise... Edit: Also the DPF is not the catalytic converter, these are two different elements.
  - hx87 10y ago
    Anywhere from forever (towing heavy trailers on long-distance highway trips, urea injection to reduce NOx) to less than 10K (heavy pickup truck, no load, frequent short trips, exhaust gas recirculation to reduce NOx).
- LordKano 10y ago
  I don't know if it's a taxation or regulatory thing but replacing a catalytic converter isn't particularly expensive on the US. My vehicle has three of them. One is extremely easy to access, one is a bit more difficult to access and one is ridiculously difficult to access. I have replaced two of them over the past few years. If the third one ever goes, I'm completely done with the vehicle. But this is me, a home mechanic, doing the work. For a professional with access to professional tools, it would be a different story. The parts themselves aren't too expensive. The easy one can be purchased for <$50 online and the two others are <$200 each online.
- Unklejoe 10y ago
  I wouldn’t expect a catalytic converter to go bad during the lifetime of any car made in the last 10 years or so. That’s right around the time when manufactures started using wideband o2 sensors, which should help prevent one of the more common failure modes (clogging). It can still happen if there are other issues such as a malfunctioning ignition system though (which could allow unburnt fuel to ignite inside the catalytic converter and cause it to overheat). This is why the check engine light actually flashes when the ECU detects a multi cylinder misfire (to signal a condition which could damage the converter). Another note: Any car since the mid 90’s will throw a check engine light if you simply remove the catalytic converter. This will cause it to fail inspection in most states of the USA, which ultimately results in the car being legally un-drivable. There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensors (or directly modifying the ECU), but this is a pretty rare practice and is usually limited to the “performance enthusiast” community. You can easily smell when a car has no converters, and it’s a pretty serious fine if you get caught.
  - lightedman 10y ago
    "There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensor" Not if the inspection station ignores the ODBII/III tests and does a direct tailpipe test. They'll get caught pretty quickly. Some stations can do that, too. They think ODB is lying, they'll sniff your exhaust.
- justin66 10y ago
  > Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Can you get away with this long-term in most of the EU? In most (or all?) US states, you have to have some sort of historic vehicle or something to get it registered without a catalytic converter.
gsnedders 10y ago
The UK at least requires presence of a DPF for the MOT test (i.e., test of roadworthiness, legally required to be done annually from a car's third anniversary of manufacture), and to have it missing (if it was fitted when new) is an instant failure. I'd be somewhat surprised if such things weren't relatively commonly part of roadworthiness tests, but I don't have time to look at quite what all EU states require.
- elcct 10y ago
  To be fair it is quite easy to get MOT without having anybody to see the car...
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Only last month, an advert offering to remove the filter was banned [1]: 'The advert said: “The only MOT regulation regarding the DPF is a simple visual inspection. As long as the DPF still appears to be fitted, the vehicle will pass the MOT visual inspection. Therefore we only remove the internal core, leaving the outer casing in place. The vehicle will appear to have a DPF fitted and will appear unmodified.”' [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/14/asa-bans-ad-removal-pollution-filters-diesel-cars https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/14/asa-bans...
Sarki 10y ago
Except that it's forbidden in most European countries to remove it (full disclosure: I recently had to replace the it on my own car). Indeed the fine for driving without is expectedly way higher than changing the part itself. e.g. In France the replacement shall cost roughly 2500 €, the fine for driving without the part is 7500€. (source https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=75637FECF0193A8BD479C949B7BCBFC4.tpdila15v_2?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006159530&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=20170106 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7563...)

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

gbil 10y ago

Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.

jordanb 10y ago
How long does a DPF last? Replacing a catalytic converter is a rare maintenance item on a car. Most of the time they last the lifetime of the vehicle. In fact the only person I know who had to replace one had it stolen from under his car while he was parked on a city street.
- gbil 10y ago
  It depends on many things, like car type, usage, maintenance (or lack of it) and for sure on what is the lifetime of a car? How many km/mi? For you it might be eg. 300k but have you checked the manufacturer's specs?
- Sarki 10y ago
  It depends on many aspects (car usage, quality, etc.) I recently bought a used diesel car (10 years old, 150k KM), the DPF was almost dead. Needless to say that is wasn't a pleasant surprise... Edit: Also the DPF is not the catalytic converter, these are two different elements.
- hx87 10y ago
  Anywhere from forever (towing heavy trailers on long-distance highway trips, urea injection to reduce NOx) to less than 10K (heavy pickup truck, no load, frequent short trips, exhaust gas recirculation to reduce NOx).
LordKano 10y ago
I don't know if it's a taxation or regulatory thing but replacing a catalytic converter isn't particularly expensive on the US. My vehicle has three of them. One is extremely easy to access, one is a bit more difficult to access and one is ridiculously difficult to access. I have replaced two of them over the past few years. If the third one ever goes, I'm completely done with the vehicle. But this is me, a home mechanic, doing the work. For a professional with access to professional tools, it would be a different story. The parts themselves aren't too expensive. The easy one can be purchased for <$50 online and the two others are <$200 each online.
Unklejoe 10y ago
I wouldn’t expect a catalytic converter to go bad during the lifetime of any car made in the last 10 years or so. That’s right around the time when manufactures started using wideband o2 sensors, which should help prevent one of the more common failure modes (clogging). It can still happen if there are other issues such as a malfunctioning ignition system though (which could allow unburnt fuel to ignite inside the catalytic converter and cause it to overheat). This is why the check engine light actually flashes when the ECU detects a multi cylinder misfire (to signal a condition which could damage the converter). Another note: Any car since the mid 90’s will throw a check engine light if you simply remove the catalytic converter. This will cause it to fail inspection in most states of the USA, which ultimately results in the car being legally un-drivable. There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensors (or directly modifying the ECU), but this is a pretty rare practice and is usually limited to the “performance enthusiast” community. You can easily smell when a car has no converters, and it’s a pretty serious fine if you get caught.
- lightedman 10y ago
  "There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensor" Not if the inspection station ignores the ODBII/III tests and does a direct tailpipe test. They'll get caught pretty quickly. Some stations can do that, too. They think ODB is lying, they'll sniff your exhaust.
justin66 10y ago
> Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Can you get away with this long-term in most of the EU? In most (or all?) US states, you have to have some sort of historic vehicle or something to get it registered without a catalytic converter.

gsnedders 10y ago

The UK at least requires presence of a DPF for the MOT test (i.e., test of roadworthiness, legally required to be done annually from a car's third anniversary of manufacture), and to have it missing (if it was fitted when new) is an instant failure. I'd be somewhat surprised if such things weren't relatively commonly part of roadworthiness tests, but I don't have time to look at quite what all EU states require.

elcct 10y ago
To be fair it is quite easy to get MOT without having anybody to see the car...
Symbiote 10y ago
Only last month, an advert offering to remove the filter was banned [1]: 'The advert said: “The only MOT regulation regarding the DPF is a simple visual inspection. As long as the DPF still appears to be fitted, the vehicle will pass the MOT visual inspection. Therefore we only remove the internal core, leaving the outer casing in place. The vehicle will appear to have a DPF fitted and will appear unmodified.”' [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/14/asa-bans-ad-removal-pollution-filters-diesel-cars https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/14/asa-bans...

Sarki 10y ago

Except that it's forbidden in most European countries to remove it (full disclosure: I recently had to replace the it on my own car). Indeed the fine for driving without is expectedly way higher than changing the part itself. e.g. In France the replacement shall cost roughly 2500 €, the fine for driving without the part is 7500€. (source https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=75637FECF0193A8BD479C949B7BCBFC4.tpdila15v_2?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006159530&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=20170106 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7563...)