4 ms·

Indeed, you CAN get to the common behavior by clicking an item further down on the context menu... or by pressing some unholy keyboard combination. But to be f

Indeed, you CAN get to the common behavior by clicking an item further down on the context menu... or by pressing some unholy keyboard combination. But to be frank, it's clunky and I'm simply not going to bother so long as Opera is being actively developed. If Opera did stop, or turned into Chinese malware or something, then I would probably just jump over to Firefox and use plugins for the most Opera-like experience possible. Because sync is a must-have (including desktop and mobile)... and we'll just have disagree on whether 99.8% of the browser market has made "incorrect" UX choices on how to open a link. This reaction IS what I was talking about, and does seem at odds with Vivaldi's branding and marketing. The website slogans include, "It's your web. Surf it the way you want!", " A million ways to customize everything!", etc. But suggest letting users customize Vivaldi so that common new tab behavior is the default, and ancient Opera behavior is the one requiring extra clicks... and suddenly customization is bad, and the way people want to surf the web is objectively wrong. Come ON. Figure out what the purpose of Vivaldi is, and proceed accordingly. If the purpose is to re-implement Opera 12 out of spite toward a former employer, then that's fine... but don't have the marketing revolve around customization. If the purpose really IS customization, then don't be so hostile or dismissive when users request customization options that depart from Opera 12.

Tomis02 10y ago
All disagreements aside, I would really like understand why you feel "open in new tab" should not focus the new tab (apart from habit). In my experience Chrome users click "open in new tab" and then click the newly opened tab anyway, which is one extra mouse click and more mouse movement than in Vivaldi/Opera12 where you only have to click 'open in new tab' (fewer clicks and less mouse movement overall, it's obviously more efficient). I'm pretty sure you don't intend to argue that non-power users will employ the ctrl+shift+click shortcut. And if you don't want to focus the tab then you can simply use the middle mouse button (same results on all browsers), or you can go 15 pixels lower and click 'open in background tab'.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  Funny that I also came up with the 15 pixels value in my answer to steveperkins, though I second guessed myself and replaced it by "few" pixels. Is it 15 pixels really a valid approximation ?
  - rootlocus 10y ago
    This is how teachers spot cheaters on tests. And no, 30 pixels is a better approximation.
  - Tomis02 10y ago
    Probably just a coincidence (in my case it might be related to how 14 used to be a common font size in my documents). On my current monitor (2560x1600) the value is more like 25-30 pixels.
- StevePerkins 10y ago
  If I want to shift focus to a different page immediately, then I simply click the link. Then use the "back" button when I want to return. If I'm right-clicking to open in a new tab, then it's usually because I want to open multiple links on a page while scrolling through it. So I want those loaded up in the background, and I want to remain on the original page until I've finished reading the material there. Yes, you CAN do these things in Vivaldi... by using three-finger keyboard shortcuts, scrolling further down in a context menu, or using a wonky middle mouse button that most non-Solaris users never use. I'm a bit perplexed by the response, though. This is Hacker News. We nod in approval as people reject text editors over the most obscure and trivial of UX preferences. We anticipate that when a blog link is posted, half of the discussion will revolve around its font kerning rather than its content. Etc. So here you have a web browser, the application that most of us spend the overwhelming majority of our computer-time using. It's primary marketing pitch is extensive support for customization. It has some UX quirks that are out of step with the other major browsers, and it's baffled that anyone might want to customize that. Hey, implement the suggestion or not, that's their call. But dismissing a customization out-of-hand as "incorrect" sure does cut against its own marketing. I think that's a bigger deal than my 15 pixels. It's an indication that the real goal is creating the perfect successor for Opera 12 die-hards. Which is awesome for that tiny group of individuals, but I don't think it's going to lead to any serious traction beyond them.
  - rootlocus 10y ago
    > a wonky middle mouse button that most non-Solaris users never use. I've read through your other comments in this thread, and while most of them contain some form of generalization or another, to me this is the most baffling.
    - bwat48 10y ago
      As I read his replies, I was immediately thinking "why not just use middle click"? Then I saw that line and was just confused. Maybe he has a mouse with a really terrible scroll wheel and has assumed that all scroll wheels are terrible and that no one ever middle clicks?
  - 10y ago
bigbugbag 10y ago
I wonder what you are talking about, Opera did stop and turned into a Chrome clone which brought vivaldi and otter into existence to close the gap it left. I don't get Where the extra click you are talking about is, either click on open in new tab or open in background tab, same number of click. I'm not sure what kind of customization you are asking for, you want to remove the choice of opening in background tab ? What is this common / default behavior you are talking about ? AFAIK the common, default, standard behavior of right clicking has always been to bring up the contextual menu. Where is it not like that ? I am not aware of vivaldi users requesting a change of the expected behavior to be more chrome like, AFAIK it is the other way around: keep the old opera goodness and keep catering to power users and provide choice.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  > I don't get Where the extra click you are talking about is, either click on open in new tab or open in background tab, same number of click. Vivaldi: right click -> "Open in new tab" = two clicks Chrome: right click -> "Open in new tab" -> click the newly opened tab = three clicks
  - StevePerkins 10y ago
    If you're only opening a single link, then sure. But if you're only opening a single link, then why use a new tab to begin with? Just click the link ("one click!"), and go back to the previous page if and when you want. If I'm opening links in new tabs, its generally because I'm reading a page, and queuing up things to read after I finish that initial page. Some of the old-Opera diehards in this thread are acting like 99% of the browser market has made an objectively "incorrect" UX choice. That is absolute nonsense. You guys don't prefer the old-Opera new tab behavior because of some objective truth, you prefer it simply because that was the old-Opera behavior and you're used to it. Objectively speaking, it is already the behavior of a default single-click to change focus. So if users take extra steps to open links in some different manner, then it's actually kinda weird to expect them to want the same focus-change behavior as if they hadn't taken those extra steps. Which is probably why every other browser has gone in that direction over the past decade. But I can acknowledge that preferences may vary.
Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
This reaction IS what I was talking about, and does seem at odds with Vivaldi's branding and marketing. The website slogans include, "It's your web. Surf it the way you want!", " A million ways to customize everything!", etc. But suggest letting users customize Vivaldi so that common new tab behavior is the default, and ancient Opera behavior is the one requiring extra clicks... and suddenly customization is bad, and the way people want to surf the web is objectively wrong. I don't think the Vivaldi team has said anything against letting you customize that option. Probably that customization is just not implemented yet.

Tomis02 10y ago

All disagreements aside, I would really like understand why you feel "open in new tab" should not focus the new tab (apart from habit). In my experience Chrome users click "open in new tab" and then click the newly opened tab anyway, which is one extra mouse click and more mouse movement than in Vivaldi/Opera12 where you only have to click 'open in new tab' (fewer clicks and less mouse movement overall, it's obviously more efficient). I'm pretty sure you don't intend to argue that non-power users will employ the ctrl+shift+click shortcut. And if you don't want to focus the tab then you can simply use the middle mouse button (same results on all browsers), or you can go 15 pixels lower and click 'open in background tab'.

bigbugbag 10y ago
Funny that I also came up with the 15 pixels value in my answer to steveperkins, though I second guessed myself and replaced it by "few" pixels. Is it 15 pixels really a valid approximation ?
- rootlocus 10y ago
  This is how teachers spot cheaters on tests. And no, 30 pixels is a better approximation.
- Tomis02 10y ago
  Probably just a coincidence (in my case it might be related to how 14 used to be a common font size in my documents). On my current monitor (2560x1600) the value is more like 25-30 pixels.
StevePerkins 10y ago
If I want to shift focus to a different page immediately, then I simply click the link. Then use the "back" button when I want to return. If I'm right-clicking to open in a new tab, then it's usually because I want to open multiple links on a page while scrolling through it. So I want those loaded up in the background, and I want to remain on the original page until I've finished reading the material there. Yes, you CAN do these things in Vivaldi... by using three-finger keyboard shortcuts, scrolling further down in a context menu, or using a wonky middle mouse button that most non-Solaris users never use. I'm a bit perplexed by the response, though. This is Hacker News. We nod in approval as people reject text editors over the most obscure and trivial of UX preferences. We anticipate that when a blog link is posted, half of the discussion will revolve around its font kerning rather than its content. Etc. So here you have a web browser, the application that most of us spend the overwhelming majority of our computer-time using. It's primary marketing pitch is extensive support for customization. It has some UX quirks that are out of step with the other major browsers, and it's baffled that anyone might want to customize that. Hey, implement the suggestion or not, that's their call. But dismissing a customization out-of-hand as "incorrect" sure does cut against its own marketing. I think that's a bigger deal than my 15 pixels. It's an indication that the real goal is creating the perfect successor for Opera 12 die-hards. Which is awesome for that tiny group of individuals, but I don't think it's going to lead to any serious traction beyond them.
- rootlocus 10y ago
  > a wonky middle mouse button that most non-Solaris users never use. I've read through your other comments in this thread, and while most of them contain some form of generalization or another, to me this is the most baffling.
  - bwat48 10y ago
    As I read his replies, I was immediately thinking "why not just use middle click"? Then I saw that line and was just confused. Maybe he has a mouse with a really terrible scroll wheel and has assumed that all scroll wheels are terrible and that no one ever middle clicks?
- 10y ago

bigbugbag 10y ago

I wonder what you are talking about, Opera did stop and turned into a Chrome clone which brought vivaldi and otter into existence to close the gap it left. I don't get Where the extra click you are talking about is, either click on open in new tab or open in background tab, same number of click. I'm not sure what kind of customization you are asking for, you want to remove the choice of opening in background tab ? What is this common / default behavior you are talking about ? AFAIK the common, default, standard behavior of right clicking has always been to bring up the contextual menu. Where is it not like that ? I am not aware of vivaldi users requesting a change of the expected behavior to be more chrome like, AFAIK it is the other way around: keep the old opera goodness and keep catering to power users and provide choice.

morganvachon 10y ago
> I don't get Where the extra click you are talking about is, either click on open in new tab or open in background tab, same number of click. Vivaldi: right click -> "Open in new tab" = two clicks Chrome: right click -> "Open in new tab" -> click the newly opened tab = three clicks
- StevePerkins 10y ago
  If you're only opening a single link, then sure. But if you're only opening a single link, then why use a new tab to begin with? Just click the link ("one click!"), and go back to the previous page if and when you want. If I'm opening links in new tabs, its generally because I'm reading a page, and queuing up things to read after I finish that initial page. Some of the old-Opera diehards in this thread are acting like 99% of the browser market has made an objectively "incorrect" UX choice. That is absolute nonsense. You guys don't prefer the old-Opera new tab behavior because of some objective truth, you prefer it simply because that was the old-Opera behavior and you're used to it. Objectively speaking, it is already the behavior of a default single-click to change focus. So if users take extra steps to open links in some different manner, then it's actually kinda weird to expect them to want the same focus-change behavior as if they hadn't taken those extra steps. Which is probably why every other browser has gone in that direction over the past decade. But I can acknowledge that preferences may vary.

Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago

This reaction IS what I was talking about, and does seem at odds with Vivaldi's branding and marketing. The website slogans include, "It's your web. Surf it the way you want!", " A million ways to customize everything!", etc. But suggest letting users customize Vivaldi so that common new tab behavior is the default, and ancient Opera behavior is the one requiring extra clicks... and suddenly customization is bad, and the way people want to surf the web is objectively wrong. I don't think the Vivaldi team has said anything against letting you customize that option. Probably that customization is just not implemented yet.