6 ms·

That seems right. I think that a lot of the educational curriculum is just targeted to the average, so if you are smarter, it can just all seem incredibly borin

by hristov 17y ago

That seems right. I think that a lot of the educational curriculum is just targeted to the average, so if you are smarter, it can just all seem incredibly boring. One example which really pissed me off when i was a student is how so many math classes in college base a huge portion of your final grade on tons of mind numbing homework. This of course is targeted to the average idiot: the university has figured out that most students have trouble with math and in order to avoid high failing grades they create homework which is a way for people to get points toward their grade by solving the same simple problem over and over and over again. And of course you do not need to understand the material to do the homework, because if there is a problem you cannot do you can just ask the TA, etc. Thus, they replace true understanding with memorisation and dull grinding work. Of course most smart people I knew would more or less blow off the homework and just ace the tests, and thus they would often end up getting a B- even though they probably understood the material better than anyone else.

jgg 17y ago
I hate "me too" posts, but when I saw what you wrote I really did want to give you more than one "upvote". I'm a mathematics (and computer science) major at a large, middle of the road university and I can say my experience has been exactly this. I gave my full rant in another comment ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1312043 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1312043 ). Basically, real mathematics takes a lot of mental resources, so in order to appeal to the masses universities have to make the material mind-numbingly stupid. Remember: it would be unacceptable to large corporations if only 1% of the current engineering graduates were graduating, regardless of how much smarter that smaller group would be. > Of course most smart people I knew would more or less blow off the homework and just ace the tests, and thus they would often end up getting a B- even though they probably understood the material better than anyone else. My Calculus II class graded mostly on the stupid homework (from James Stewart's book, no less) and attendance! Unless you care enough to work hard in highschool and have enough money to go to a school like MIT, "higher" education is a huge joke.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  How rapidly can you place upward into more advanced classes (presumably only for math majors) at your university?
  - jgg 17y ago
    It depends on the classes, actually. They do "clepping out" on a per-professor basis. But trust me, I'm looking into that. EDIT: I even sat in on an upper-level programming languages course, and the most advanced thing you learned (from what I gathered) was a bit of Common Lisp. I hate to sound like an arrogant ass, but for the entire lecture I was thinking "Is there something wrong with me? I learned this in highschool!"
    - tokenadult 17y ago
      You mentioned getting a scholarship in the other post about your college. What dictated your college choice?
      - jgg 17y ago
        Short answer: money. Long answer: I had an ACT in the 30s and a GPA of 3.9 upon graduation from highschool, and I took a few AP courses (my school only offered 3, and in addition I took AP Physics over the internet (terrible idea)), got a 5 in the AP Calc test, etc. but past that I hadn't taken the SAT subject tests or anything, so I wasn't really competitive. My family and I don't have a lot of excess money just lying around, and basically my options were thus: get admitted to a couple upper-tier-but-not-Ivy-League schools and pay with money I didn't have, or go to a crappy state school with scholarships. I've had a job since 7th grade (but there are not a lot of tech companies in my area, so they haven't really been 'tech' jobs), but all of that was saved for buying my own vehicle, insurance, 'spare' money for college, etc. I remember getting excited when I received a ~$20K a year scholarship to a "Blah Blah Institute of Technology", only to find that it cost $50K a year to attend. Overall, I'm burnt on the education system. My goal now is to get out with a stupid degree before I completely crash, but I'm already coming dangerously close... EDIT: I was also in Duke's TIP program, which got me mail from Columbia and the like, but once again I couldn't really afford to go through with any of that. EDIT 2: Before this sounds like just a bunch of whining, a huge chunk of this was my fault. I could have had higher scores and grades and whatnot, but I really just didn't give a shit. I hated school, and wanted to do as little as possible. I've always loved learning though.
jackowayed 17y ago
Oh man, really? That's been my experience in high school, but I was really looking forward to college, where I heard that many professors make homework totally optional and the vast majority of one's grade comes from tests.
- jgg 17y ago
  That's what they told me too. It depends on the college. I would imagine that Stanford would be a bit better quality than my school.
  - hy3lxs 17y ago
    From CS-106X, Programming Abstractions (intro course) http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs106x/handouts/01-CS106X-Course-Information.pdf http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs106x/handouts/01-CS106X-Cour... Your final grade will be computed as follows: Programs 25 % Midterm 25 % Final 50 % From 51 H, Multivariable Calculus (freshman course) http://www.stanford.edu/class/math51h/51h-info.html http://www.stanford.edu/class/math51h/51h-info.html Grading: Mid-term 1: 20% Mid-term 2: 20% Homework: 20% Final Examination: 40%
  - endtime 17y ago
    In a Stanford CS project-heavy class, the projects are usually 50% or more of your final grade, and those are pretty tough to do without some understanding of the material. In a problem set class, the exams are typically 50% or more. For example, in CS103 (learning the basics like proofs, induction, graph theory, set theory, a little complexity, etc.) your grade is 45% psets and 55% exams; in 154 (in-depth complexity), it's 40/60. In 248 (3d graphics) it's 90% projects, 10% exam. So even if you get a TA who helps a little too much on psets, you won't get better than a B without understanding the material.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  I was really looking forward to college, where I heard that many professors make homework totally optional and the vast majority of one's grade comes from tests. You would probably like majoring in math at the University of Minnesota then. The reason to do (self-chosen) homework between the tests is just to be ready for the tests. (Well, really the reason to learn anything should be to learn it, irrespective of grades, but you know what I mean.)

by hristov 17y ago

jgg 17y ago

I hate "me too" posts, but when I saw what you wrote I really did want to give you more than one "upvote". I'm a mathematics (and computer science) major at a large, middle of the road university and I can say my experience has been exactly this. I gave my full rant in another comment ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1312043 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1312043 ). Basically, real mathematics takes a lot of mental resources, so in order to appeal to the masses universities have to make the material mind-numbingly stupid. Remember: it would be unacceptable to large corporations if only 1% of the current engineering graduates were graduating, regardless of how much smarter that smaller group would be. > Of course most smart people I knew would more or less blow off the homework and just ace the tests, and thus they would often end up getting a B- even though they probably understood the material better than anyone else. My Calculus II class graded mostly on the stupid homework (from James Stewart's book, no less) and attendance! Unless you care enough to work hard in highschool and have enough money to go to a school like MIT, "higher" education is a huge joke.

tokenadult 17y ago
How rapidly can you place upward into more advanced classes (presumably only for math majors) at your university?
- jgg 17y ago
  It depends on the classes, actually. They do "clepping out" on a per-professor basis. But trust me, I'm looking into that. EDIT: I even sat in on an upper-level programming languages course, and the most advanced thing you learned (from what I gathered) was a bit of Common Lisp. I hate to sound like an arrogant ass, but for the entire lecture I was thinking "Is there something wrong with me? I learned this in highschool!"
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    You mentioned getting a scholarship in the other post about your college. What dictated your college choice?
    - jgg 17y ago
      Short answer: money. Long answer: I had an ACT in the 30s and a GPA of 3.9 upon graduation from highschool, and I took a few AP courses (my school only offered 3, and in addition I took AP Physics over the internet (terrible idea)), got a 5 in the AP Calc test, etc. but past that I hadn't taken the SAT subject tests or anything, so I wasn't really competitive. My family and I don't have a lot of excess money just lying around, and basically my options were thus: get admitted to a couple upper-tier-but-not-Ivy-League schools and pay with money I didn't have, or go to a crappy state school with scholarships. I've had a job since 7th grade (but there are not a lot of tech companies in my area, so they haven't really been 'tech' jobs), but all of that was saved for buying my own vehicle, insurance, 'spare' money for college, etc. I remember getting excited when I received a ~$20K a year scholarship to a "Blah Blah Institute of Technology", only to find that it cost $50K a year to attend. Overall, I'm burnt on the education system. My goal now is to get out with a stupid degree before I completely crash, but I'm already coming dangerously close... EDIT: I was also in Duke's TIP program, which got me mail from Columbia and the like, but once again I couldn't really afford to go through with any of that. EDIT 2: Before this sounds like just a bunch of whining, a huge chunk of this was my fault. I could have had higher scores and grades and whatnot, but I really just didn't give a shit. I hated school, and wanted to do as little as possible. I've always loved learning though.

jackowayed 17y ago

Oh man, really? That's been my experience in high school, but I was really looking forward to college, where I heard that many professors make homework totally optional and the vast majority of one's grade comes from tests.

jgg 17y ago
That's what they told me too. It depends on the college. I would imagine that Stanford would be a bit better quality than my school.
- hy3lxs 17y ago
  From CS-106X, Programming Abstractions (intro course) http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs106x/handouts/01-CS106X-Course-Information.pdf http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs106x/handouts/01-CS106X-Cour... Your final grade will be computed as follows: Programs 25 % Midterm 25 % Final 50 % From 51 H, Multivariable Calculus (freshman course) http://www.stanford.edu/class/math51h/51h-info.html http://www.stanford.edu/class/math51h/51h-info.html Grading: Mid-term 1: 20% Mid-term 2: 20% Homework: 20% Final Examination: 40%
- endtime 17y ago
  In a Stanford CS project-heavy class, the projects are usually 50% or more of your final grade, and those are pretty tough to do without some understanding of the material. In a problem set class, the exams are typically 50% or more. For example, in CS103 (learning the basics like proofs, induction, graph theory, set theory, a little complexity, etc.) your grade is 45% psets and 55% exams; in 154 (in-depth complexity), it's 40/60. In 248 (3d graphics) it's 90% projects, 10% exam. So even if you get a TA who helps a little too much on psets, you won't get better than a B without understanding the material.
tokenadult 17y ago
I was really looking forward to college, where I heard that many professors make homework totally optional and the vast majority of one's grade comes from tests. You would probably like majoring in math at the University of Minnesota then. The reason to do (self-chosen) homework between the tests is just to be ready for the tests. (Well, really the reason to learn anything should be to learn it, irrespective of grades, but you know what I mean.)