6 ms·

It's different in software, people can't do their jobs when this happens. Otherwise it shouldn't be called a burnout.

by zzzcpan 10y ago

Bogdanp 10y ago
I realize you're not saying it's limited to software, but I think it's interesting to note that the term was coined by a psychologist (Herbert Freudenberger) trying to describe a condition he himself experienced.
gideon_b 10y ago
That's a great point. It's not specific to software but knowledge work and creative work are nearly impossible to do without intrinsic motivation.
- dom0 10y ago
  These comments here mostly speak for the fact that the commenters did, in fact, never experience burnout, depression or other heavily psychologically draining issues. Because you literally cannot do things. Which things is completely and utterly irrelevant. I don't understand why people still a) think that "knowledge professions" are some kind of unicorn job where special snowflake sauce is required, and it's obviously totally different from those gritty "manual labour jobs" and you have to constantly set yourself apart (how arrogant is that?!) b) purport this strange notion that psyche has little to do with the body. Digger won't dig? Just whip'em, it'll work for sure.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
paulcole 10y ago
You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?
- haswell 10y ago
  I'd argue that yes, it is different in software development. The nature of ditch digging is such that given enough effort, it's probably still possible to dig a ditch. It doesn't mean you'll be motivated to dig the ditch, it doesn't mean it won't be ridiculously hard to dig the ditch, but barring seriously physical issues preventing you from making progress, digging a ditch is mechanical and doesn't really involve a serious need for critical thinking. When you burn out as a software dev (and probably other fields that involve serious mental investment), it doesn't matter how much you try, there's a good chance you'll just fail. I do agree that software development is not the only field that can be seriously impacted by burnout, but the degree of impact seems to be highest in fields involving knowledge work.
  - varjag 10y ago
    Hilariously I'm that person who was forced to dig ditches a few times and experienced a mild case of burnout as developer. In both cases the performance was similar. With earthworks I simply didn't give a damn about the job, so just pecked the ground unenthusiastically. With burnout it was as if petard went off, but instead of earbuzz you get numb to planning, focusing and executing. I actually felt bad about it, but doubt you'd see much behaviour difference from the outside. So I'd wager the lack of motivation is a serious handicap in both cases. Sure, "anyone can dig a ditch" but I dare you try doing it for a day if you are not into it. Similarly I was already an experienced developer at the point of burnout, and the job at hand wasn't challenging at all.
    - purephase 10y ago
      I don't think you understand the previous comment. Often, with burnout, motivation is not necessarily the issue. You try, or believe that you're trying, your absolute best but everything is falling down around you. It's not just about motivation, it is just that your perceived ability to execute (going through the motions) and actual ability are completely at odds and you eventually lose all confidence in yourself to continue. It's not motivation for the job, it's belief in your own abilities / capabilities that erodes your motivation.
grillvogel 10y ago
believe it or software is not the only job that requires thinking

It's different in software, people can't do their jobs when this happens. Otherwise it shouldn't be called a burnout.

by zzzcpan 10y ago

It's different in software, people can't do their jobs when this happens. Otherwise it shouldn't be called a burnout.

I realize you're not saying it's limited to software, but I think it's interesting to note that the term was coined by a psychologist (Herbert Freudenberger) trying to describe a condition he himself experienced.

gideon_b 10y ago

That's a great point. It's not specific to software but knowledge work and creative work are nearly impossible to do without intrinsic motivation.

dom0 10y ago
These comments here mostly speak for the fact that the commenters did, in fact, never experience burnout, depression or other heavily psychologically draining issues. Because you literally cannot do things. Which things is completely and utterly irrelevant. I don't understand why people still a) think that "knowledge professions" are some kind of unicorn job where special snowflake sauce is required, and it's obviously totally different from those gritty "manual labour jobs" and you have to constantly set yourself apart (how arrogant is that?!) b) purport this strange notion that psyche has little to do with the body. Digger won't dig? Just whip'em, it'll work for sure.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

paulcole 10y ago

You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?

haswell 10y ago
I'd argue that yes, it is different in software development. The nature of ditch digging is such that given enough effort, it's probably still possible to dig a ditch. It doesn't mean you'll be motivated to dig the ditch, it doesn't mean it won't be ridiculously hard to dig the ditch, but barring seriously physical issues preventing you from making progress, digging a ditch is mechanical and doesn't really involve a serious need for critical thinking. When you burn out as a software dev (and probably other fields that involve serious mental investment), it doesn't matter how much you try, there's a good chance you'll just fail. I do agree that software development is not the only field that can be seriously impacted by burnout, but the degree of impact seems to be highest in fields involving knowledge work.
- varjag 10y ago
  Hilariously I'm that person who was forced to dig ditches a few times and experienced a mild case of burnout as developer. In both cases the performance was similar. With earthworks I simply didn't give a damn about the job, so just pecked the ground unenthusiastically. With burnout it was as if petard went off, but instead of earbuzz you get numb to planning, focusing and executing. I actually felt bad about it, but doubt you'd see much behaviour difference from the outside. So I'd wager the lack of motivation is a serious handicap in both cases. Sure, "anyone can dig a ditch" but I dare you try doing it for a day if you are not into it. Similarly I was already an experienced developer at the point of burnout, and the job at hand wasn't challenging at all.
  - purephase 10y ago
    I don't think you understand the previous comment. Often, with burnout, motivation is not necessarily the issue. You try, or believe that you're trying, your absolute best but everything is falling down around you. It's not just about motivation, it is just that your perceived ability to execute (going through the motions) and actual ability are completely at odds and you eventually lose all confidence in yourself to continue. It's not motivation for the job, it's belief in your own abilities / capabilities that erodes your motivation.

grillvogel 10y ago

believe it or software is not the only job that requires thinking