4 ms·

Does FedEx/UPS have to share package pickup/dropoff data with local governments? After all, it is a direct competitor to the US Postal Service.

knz 10y ago
Great point but there are some legitimate reasons that the city may want ride data especially if Uber wants to replace multiple forms of transportation (taxis, personal vehicles, frieght delivery, ride services for the elderly/disabled etc). There are also other municipal needs like collecting utility information from radio systems or pavement management surveys that cities often drive around to collect - Uber could potentially be utilized for data gathering if it was determined that they had sufficient coverage etc. Every GIS nerd would love a data set like the Uber tracks for analysis and to see what else they could be used for (Uber for mass license plate collection is like something from Black Mirror).
- lightbyte 10y ago
  This data could be extremely helpful to planning out public transportation. You would be able to determine the most common areas people go to, where they come from, when they typically go there, etc. All would help in planning bus routes/subway lines/etc.
  - scirocco 10y ago
    Thus improving public transport and make people less dependent on Uber :)
    - Fricken 10y ago
      They're not in competition with one another. Together they are both in competition with privately owned cars. A transportation system effective enough to compel people to give their cars up is good for both of them. Uber alone is too expensive, and public transit alone can't provide service everywhere all the time cost effectively.
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  If the city wants to contract with Uber (or FedEx or UPS or...) to do pavement management surveys, that could be an interesting conversation. But that's not what the city is asking for or has proposed. Instead of imagining uses for their data, let's realize it's their data that we have individually given them and we may not want the city - any city - to have. Remember Uber's (terrible) "Rides of Glory" post describing how they could detect hooksups - http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/ubers-deleted-rides-of-glory-blog-post http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/ubers-deleted-rides-of-gl... ? Now imagine that in your local government's hands.
- maverick_iceman 10y ago
  >Every GIS nerd would love a data set like the Uber tracks for analysis The same argument can be made about Facebook's data. I don't think that justifies making it public.
  - knz 10y ago
    For sure. I wasn't implying it should be released to everyone.
mjmahone17 10y ago
Medallion taxi services in NY have to share pick up and drop off data with NYC's government. Even though each of those cars are privately owned and operated. In NYC, Uber drivers are all required to have taxi licenses. It seems reasonable that a private medallion-competitor should have to share the same information that the private medallion-owners do.
- gohrt 10y ago
  Why? Uber drives aren't using the medallion.
  - epc 10y ago
    Uber operates in NYC under the City's Taxi and Limousine Commission. No medallion, but drivers and vehicles must be registered to the TLC in order to legally operate.
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  Except taxi services don't (usually) track detailed GPS info on where they picked me up and dropped me off. Further, if I pay with cash and don't break their rules, they don't know/care who I am.
  - madgar 10y ago
    We're talking about NYC where taxis DO record this information.
cmac2992 10y ago
"Taxis already share all the data the commission is requesting from Uber." I think that's the key detail
- maverick_iceman 10y ago
  Taxis accepted a lot of obtrusive regulations because they were granted a monopoly by the city. I don't see why Uber should obey these regulations when they are not getting any such sweetheart deals.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Who is the monopoly here? Anybody is free to buy a medallion and own a yellow cab. Besides yellow cabs there are also private livery cabs aka "black cars/car service." "CURRENT OWNERSHIP: 17 percent of medallions are owned by cab fleets; 54 percent are owned by leasing agents, who delegate management to fleets; and 29 percent are owned by independent drivers" http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  If the argument really boils down to "everyone else is doing it" or "that's what we've always done!" they should stop and apply some critical thinking.
  - badwolf 10y ago
    "everyone else is following city regulations"

knz 10y ago

Great point but there are some legitimate reasons that the city may want ride data especially if Uber wants to replace multiple forms of transportation (taxis, personal vehicles, frieght delivery, ride services for the elderly/disabled etc). There are also other municipal needs like collecting utility information from radio systems or pavement management surveys that cities often drive around to collect - Uber could potentially be utilized for data gathering if it was determined that they had sufficient coverage etc. Every GIS nerd would love a data set like the Uber tracks for analysis and to see what else they could be used for (Uber for mass license plate collection is like something from Black Mirror).

lightbyte 10y ago
This data could be extremely helpful to planning out public transportation. You would be able to determine the most common areas people go to, where they come from, when they typically go there, etc. All would help in planning bus routes/subway lines/etc.
- scirocco 10y ago
  Thus improving public transport and make people less dependent on Uber :)
  - Fricken 10y ago
    They're not in competition with one another. Together they are both in competition with privately owned cars. A transportation system effective enough to compel people to give their cars up is good for both of them. Uber alone is too expensive, and public transit alone can't provide service everywhere all the time cost effectively.
caseysoftware 10y ago
If the city wants to contract with Uber (or FedEx or UPS or...) to do pavement management surveys, that could be an interesting conversation. But that's not what the city is asking for or has proposed. Instead of imagining uses for their data, let's realize it's their data that we have individually given them and we may not want the city - any city - to have. Remember Uber's (terrible) "Rides of Glory" post describing how they could detect hooksups - http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/ubers-deleted-rides-of-glory-blog-post http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/ubers-deleted-rides-of-gl... ? Now imagine that in your local government's hands.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
>Every GIS nerd would love a data set like the Uber tracks for analysis The same argument can be made about Facebook's data. I don't think that justifies making it public.
- knz 10y ago
  For sure. I wasn't implying it should be released to everyone.

mjmahone17 10y ago

Medallion taxi services in NY have to share pick up and drop off data with NYC's government. Even though each of those cars are privately owned and operated. In NYC, Uber drivers are all required to have taxi licenses. It seems reasonable that a private medallion-competitor should have to share the same information that the private medallion-owners do.

gohrt 10y ago
Why? Uber drives aren't using the medallion.
- epc 10y ago
  Uber operates in NYC under the City's Taxi and Limousine Commission. No medallion, but drivers and vehicles must be registered to the TLC in order to legally operate.
caseysoftware 10y ago
Except taxi services don't (usually) track detailed GPS info on where they picked me up and dropped me off. Further, if I pay with cash and don't break their rules, they don't know/care who I am.
- madgar 10y ago
  We're talking about NYC where taxis DO record this information.

cmac2992 10y ago

"Taxis already share all the data the commission is requesting from Uber." I think that's the key detail

maverick_iceman 10y ago
Taxis accepted a lot of obtrusive regulations because they were granted a monopoly by the city. I don't see why Uber should obey these regulations when they are not getting any such sweetheart deals.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Who is the monopoly here? Anybody is free to buy a medallion and own a yellow cab. Besides yellow cabs there are also private livery cabs aka "black cars/car service." "CURRENT OWNERSHIP: 17 percent of medallions are owned by cab fleets; 54 percent are owned by leasing agents, who delegate management to fleets; and 29 percent are owned by independent drivers" http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/
caseysoftware 10y ago
If the argument really boils down to "everyone else is doing it" or "that's what we've always done!" they should stop and apply some critical thinking.
- badwolf 10y ago
  "everyone else is following city regulations"