4 ms·

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declarin

by gkya 10y ago

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declaring here and now to the whole world that Libreboot is no longer LR> part of the GNU project. I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project LR> deserve to exist. Mistakes are everywhere and are done by everybody. A mistake was done by some people in FSF, the reaction is exaggerated to say the least. Furthermore, it's not clear whether or not the fired person was fired for being a trans. In fact in an email in the thread Stallman says: The dismissal of the staff person was not because of her gender. Her gender now is the same as it was when we hired her. It was not an issue then, and it is not an issue now. Whatever the case is, even though I know null about the project, I can easily say that Leah Rowe, whoever she might be, is apparently toxic for the project. Hopefully, given that it's free software, the other maintainers can get rid of her.

stronglikedan 10y ago
> A mistake was done by some people in FSF Probably just one person, and she was fired for it (or, more likely, them).
- djsumdog 10y ago
  Letting go of people often has to do with a series of mistakes. It's something most companies and non-profits can't do lightly. There is so much potential blowback, like with this case. These decisions usually involve a couple of people. We don't have introspection into this, so we can't be sure. Resist the urge to assume.
djsumdog 10y ago
It's very difficult to classify people by e-mails. I worked with so many people who were very nice to me. We'd discuss requirements. I'd even type up timelines and e-mail them docs. Next day, a thread with every manager in the planet saying our team was stonewalling everything, being unhelpful, etc. etc. My boss would come up to my cube and say, "Stop e-mailing these people! Why are you e-mailing them? Pick up the phone and call them!" I hate to rush judgement, but looking at the statements that are out, I am really unhappy with her approach, her statements and her totalism. Just because you don't agree with a policy doesn't mean the FSF shouldn't exist. Pulling your project feels reactionary. I'm guilty of reactionary anger too. I'm human, we're all human. We feel like we've been wronged often by our neighbours or our landlords or police. This might have just been a bad week for her and some rushed decision making. But if she's always like this and doesn't learn from it, then she'll find herself alone in other communities in the future. Just a side note, there was a good video by School of Life on anger. I don't actually agree with all of it. Their premise is weird, but it would actually put her reaction to the FSF in a different light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coiCkmcKjX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coiCkmcKjX8
- gkya 10y ago
  Well it might've been a difficult week for her. The last twelve months have been truly and profoundly terrible for me, this wouldn't justify me acting mad like her though. It's obvious that she's not the kind of person to bear responsabilities.
- laumars 10y ago
  In one of her latter posts she confesses that the person who was fired was a close friend of hers. So I think this is a case of her being too close to the subject matter to be objective. In fact I think she came to realise this herself but not until it was too late for her and the project: https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero
  - gkya 10y ago
    Well that does not justify any of this trouble she caused, indeed, it only makes it worse. Even the fired person herself has finished their frienship with her.
    - laumars 10y ago
      I wasn't justifying her actions but at the end of the day witch hunts like this happen all too frequently online. It's way to easy for people to overreact and to a wider audience than ever before. The smart thing we can do as 3rd party observers is just ignore the fighting rather than participating in the outrage. Let the offended individuals vent and then let the argument disappear into obscurity. The alternative is escalation and we've seen how badly that can turn out (remember the grim Adria Richards Python conference saga which resulting in multiple job terminations and threats of sexual assault and death?).
- linkmotif 10y ago
  Lol "pessimism is the cure for anger".
discordianfish 10y ago
> Whatever the case is, even though I know null about the project, I can easily say that Leah Rowe, whoever she might be, is apparently toxic for the project. So you don't know anything about the project beside that their main/core maintainer accuses GNU project to have fired a trans person and therefor she doesn't want to work there anymore. Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'apparently toxic', you are a prime example for what is going wrong in tech.
- gkya 10y ago
  I know quite a bit about FSF and GNU. The maintainer of libreboot here makes blunt accusations and decides in the name of other participants of the project (and they don't all agree to her: http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html). She uses vulgarity, over-reacts, abuses her position to publish articles in the name of all the community on the project website.... see, who would you find more dependable in this context?
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  I'm not GP, but >Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'apparently toxic', you are a prime example for what is going wrong in tech. I don't even know what SJW means anymore. There are too many definitions floating around. But it doesn't matter, because I don't care what you are, and I'm not interested in insulting you. That's pointless. While I may not always succeed at doing so (staying detached is hard!), I would rather attack ideas than people. The thing is, whether or not what Leah did was right, how she went about it was entirely wrong. If she doesn't want to work for the FSF, and if she wants to fight the FSF over its actions, I don't care. But her lack of professionalism is unacceptable. That's why I would call her toxic (although I haven't done that yet).
- amyjess 10y ago
  Leah outed a stealth trans woman as part of her crusade. She's hurt that person far more than the FSF ever did.

by gkya 10y ago

stronglikedan 10y ago

> A mistake was done by some people in FSF Probably just one person, and she was fired for it (or, more likely, them).

djsumdog 10y ago
Letting go of people often has to do with a series of mistakes. It's something most companies and non-profits can't do lightly. There is so much potential blowback, like with this case. These decisions usually involve a couple of people. We don't have introspection into this, so we can't be sure. Resist the urge to assume.

djsumdog 10y ago

It's very difficult to classify people by e-mails. I worked with so many people who were very nice to me. We'd discuss requirements. I'd even type up timelines and e-mail them docs. Next day, a thread with every manager in the planet saying our team was stonewalling everything, being unhelpful, etc. etc. My boss would come up to my cube and say, "Stop e-mailing these people! Why are you e-mailing them? Pick up the phone and call them!" I hate to rush judgement, but looking at the statements that are out, I am really unhappy with her approach, her statements and her totalism. Just because you don't agree with a policy doesn't mean the FSF shouldn't exist. Pulling your project feels reactionary. I'm guilty of reactionary anger too. I'm human, we're all human. We feel like we've been wronged often by our neighbours or our landlords or police. This might have just been a bad week for her and some rushed decision making. But if she's always like this and doesn't learn from it, then she'll find herself alone in other communities in the future. Just a side note, there was a good video by School of Life on anger. I don't actually agree with all of it. Their premise is weird, but it would actually put her reaction to the FSF in a different light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coiCkmcKjX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coiCkmcKjX8

gkya 10y ago
Well it might've been a difficult week for her. The last twelve months have been truly and profoundly terrible for me, this wouldn't justify me acting mad like her though. It's obvious that she's not the kind of person to bear responsabilities.
laumars 10y ago
In one of her latter posts she confesses that the person who was fired was a close friend of hers. So I think this is a case of her being too close to the subject matter to be objective. In fact I think she came to realise this herself but not until it was too late for her and the project: https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero
- gkya 10y ago
  Well that does not justify any of this trouble she caused, indeed, it only makes it worse. Even the fired person herself has finished their frienship with her.
  - laumars 10y ago
    I wasn't justifying her actions but at the end of the day witch hunts like this happen all too frequently online. It's way to easy for people to overreact and to a wider audience than ever before. The smart thing we can do as 3rd party observers is just ignore the fighting rather than participating in the outrage. Let the offended individuals vent and then let the argument disappear into obscurity. The alternative is escalation and we've seen how badly that can turn out (remember the grim Adria Richards Python conference saga which resulting in multiple job terminations and threats of sexual assault and death?).
linkmotif 10y ago
Lol "pessimism is the cure for anger".

discordianfish 10y ago

> Whatever the case is, even though I know null about the project, I can easily say that Leah Rowe, whoever she might be, is apparently toxic for the project. So you don't know anything about the project beside that their main/core maintainer accuses GNU project to have fired a trans person and therefor she doesn't want to work there anymore. Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'apparently toxic', you are a prime example for what is going wrong in tech.

gkya 10y ago
I know quite a bit about FSF and GNU. The maintainer of libreboot here makes blunt accusations and decides in the name of other participants of the project (and they don't all agree to her: http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html http://zammit.org/libreboot-screwup.html). She uses vulgarity, over-reacts, abuses her position to publish articles in the name of all the community on the project website.... see, who would you find more dependable in this context?
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
I'm not GP, but >Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'apparently toxic', you are a prime example for what is going wrong in tech. I don't even know what SJW means anymore. There are too many definitions floating around. But it doesn't matter, because I don't care what you are, and I'm not interested in insulting you. That's pointless. While I may not always succeed at doing so (staying detached is hard!), I would rather attack ideas than people. The thing is, whether or not what Leah did was right, how she went about it was entirely wrong. If she doesn't want to work for the FSF, and if she wants to fight the FSF over its actions, I don't care. But her lack of professionalism is unacceptable. That's why I would call her toxic (although I haven't done that yet).
amyjess 10y ago
Leah outed a stealth trans woman as part of her crusade. She's hurt that person far more than the FSF ever did.