5 ms·

And if you take out a couple states, Clinton won the electoral college. What's your point? That we should ignore the votes of two of the largest states because

by kevinh 10y ago

And if you take out a couple states, Clinton won the electoral college. What's your point? That we should ignore the votes of two of the largest states because they don't agree with you?

EpicEng 10y ago
If we change to a popular vote system then the entire race looks different. It's a silly argument either way.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
> That we should ignore the votes of two of the largest states because they don't agree with you? Ahh, yeah. That's the point. So America isn't CaliforNewYork. The electoral college isn't a scam, it exists to bring balance, so your hipster javascript developer gets the same weight as a coal miner in rural Ohio.
- baddox 10y ago
  So then, America now is TexasOklahoma? If those two states went blue, Hillary would have won. This argument is extremely weak.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  The same weight is one human, one vote. Period. Your system has only ensured that a few swing states like Ohio exercise a tyranny of the minority over the rest of us[1]. You keep implying that the rest of us aren't Americans and don't deserve an equal voice, and don't be surprised if we start trying to secede or revolt violently against the tyrants ruling over America's urban majority against our will. [1] -- http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upshot/as-american-as-apple-pie-the-rural-votes-disproportionate-slice-of-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upshot/as-american-as-appl...
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > The same weight is one human, one vote. Period. You are entitled to your opinion! That's not how the system is currently designed. > You keep implying that the rest of us aren't Americans and don't deserve an equal voice, and don't be surprised if we start trying to secede or revolt violently against the tyrants ruling over America's urban majority against our will. Good luck with that. You want to bleed out in the street, go for it. Plenty of other first world countries for me to move my family to.
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      >Good luck with that. You want to bleed out in the street, go for it. Plenty of other first world countries for me to move my family to. Very few others with low taxes, no universal health-care, no universal pension, and a general fetish for empowering the rural bourgeoisie at everyone else's expense. Personally, I've got three countries on my short list to apply to, maybe four. But I'm still going to start taking self-defense lessons, because with a neo-fascist government, you people have gone too damn far. You are enabling the most violent, evil elements in society, and that warrants a response.
      - pcardh0 10y ago
        How are MS-13, Bloods, Crips and other various street gangs enabled by Trump's election? I am confused.
        eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        You actually think street gangs are worse than neo-Nazis?
        kmicklas 10y ago
        Hacker news is a racist cesspool, you shouldn't be surprised.
        ashark 10y ago
        To be fair, there are probably a whole lot more gang members than there are neo-Nazis, even if we widen that umbrella to include all racial supremacist groups with significant violent tendencies. Hell, throw in religious extremists for good measure, of all stripes, and I bet non-racially-motivated gangs still commit way more murders in a given year (in the US, which seemed like the context of this exchange). Not that neo-Nazis aren't awful, obviously.
- serge2k 10y ago
  > so your hipster javascript developer gets the same weight as a coal miner in rural Ohio Except it doesn't do that. It gives the farmer in Wyoming more power than either. And no, it wasn't designed to be this way. Not to this extent.
- kevinh 10y ago
  The design of the electoral college was not to prevent influence by larger states. That's the function of the Senate. The electoral college exists in part to enable the 3/5ths compromise and in part to allow the vote of the people to be changed by someone who is theoretically more sophisticated.
- Frondo 10y ago
  Why should the coal miner get more of a voice than the guy who lives in a city? They're both citizens, right? They both get to vote on their state, city, and county stuff. Why should the guy who lives in the middle of nowhere get to say "my vote's worth 50x what yours is, sucker!!"?
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
    - baddox 10y ago
      So the alternative is tyranny of the minority? It doesn't reassure me that we give much more weight to a minority of voters just because they live in less densely populated areas. That's completely arbitrary.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Lots of decisions in life are arbitrary, or based on fuzzy moral standings.
        jellicle 10y ago
        The U.S. should move to a political system where coastal city-dwelling individuals have 4x the voting power of people who live inland and in rural areas.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - pawn 10y ago
        It could be argued that 100 people living in 3 counties have a greater diversity of concerns and opinions than 100 people sharing an apartment complex.

by kevinh 10y ago

And if you take out a couple states, Clinton won the electoral college. What's your point? That we should ignore the votes of two of the largest states because they don't agree with you?

EpicEng 10y ago

If we change to a popular vote system then the entire race looks different. It's a silly argument either way.

toomuchtodo 10y ago

> That we should ignore the votes of two of the largest states because they don't agree with you? Ahh, yeah. That's the point. So America isn't CaliforNewYork. The electoral college isn't a scam, it exists to bring balance, so your hipster javascript developer gets the same weight as a coal miner in rural Ohio.

baddox 10y ago
So then, America now is TexasOklahoma? If those two states went blue, Hillary would have won. This argument is extremely weak.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
The same weight is one human, one vote. Period. Your system has only ensured that a few swing states like Ohio exercise a tyranny of the minority over the rest of us[1]. You keep implying that the rest of us aren't Americans and don't deserve an equal voice, and don't be surprised if we start trying to secede or revolt violently against the tyrants ruling over America's urban majority against our will. [1] -- http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upshot/as-american-as-apple-pie-the-rural-votes-disproportionate-slice-of-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upshot/as-american-as-appl...
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > The same weight is one human, one vote. Period. You are entitled to your opinion! That's not how the system is currently designed. > You keep implying that the rest of us aren't Americans and don't deserve an equal voice, and don't be surprised if we start trying to secede or revolt violently against the tyrants ruling over America's urban majority against our will. Good luck with that. You want to bleed out in the street, go for it. Plenty of other first world countries for me to move my family to.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >Good luck with that. You want to bleed out in the street, go for it. Plenty of other first world countries for me to move my family to. Very few others with low taxes, no universal health-care, no universal pension, and a general fetish for empowering the rural bourgeoisie at everyone else's expense. Personally, I've got three countries on my short list to apply to, maybe four. But I'm still going to start taking self-defense lessons, because with a neo-fascist government, you people have gone too damn far. You are enabling the most violent, evil elements in society, and that warrants a response.
    - pcardh0 10y ago
      How are MS-13, Bloods, Crips and other various street gangs enabled by Trump's election? I am confused.
      - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        You actually think street gangs are worse than neo-Nazis?
        kmicklas 10y ago
        Hacker news is a racist cesspool, you shouldn't be surprised.
        ashark 10y ago
        To be fair, there are probably a whole lot more gang members than there are neo-Nazis, even if we widen that umbrella to include all racial supremacist groups with significant violent tendencies. Hell, throw in religious extremists for good measure, of all stripes, and I bet non-racially-motivated gangs still commit way more murders in a given year (in the US, which seemed like the context of this exchange). Not that neo-Nazis aren't awful, obviously.
serge2k 10y ago
> so your hipster javascript developer gets the same weight as a coal miner in rural Ohio Except it doesn't do that. It gives the farmer in Wyoming more power than either. And no, it wasn't designed to be this way. Not to this extent.
kevinh 10y ago
The design of the electoral college was not to prevent influence by larger states. That's the function of the Senate. The electoral college exists in part to enable the 3/5ths compromise and in part to allow the vote of the people to be changed by someone who is theoretically more sophisticated.
Frondo 10y ago
Why should the coal miner get more of a voice than the guy who lives in a city? They're both citizens, right? They both get to vote on their state, city, and county stuff. Why should the guy who lives in the middle of nowhere get to say "my vote's worth 50x what yours is, sucker!!"?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
  - baddox 10y ago
    So the alternative is tyranny of the minority? It doesn't reassure me that we give much more weight to a minority of voters just because they live in less densely populated areas. That's completely arbitrary.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Lots of decisions in life are arbitrary, or based on fuzzy moral standings.
      - jellicle 10y ago
        The U.S. should move to a political system where coastal city-dwelling individuals have 4x the voting power of people who live inland and in rural areas.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - pawn 10y ago
      It could be argued that 100 people living in 3 counties have a greater diversity of concerns and opinions than 100 people sharing an apartment complex.