3 ms·

Your demonstration is one incident. Just look at the NY Times homepage daily; you will find continual challenges to those in authority in the U.S. Perhaps they

Your demonstration is one incident. Just look at the NY Times homepage daily; you will find continual challenges to those in authority in the U.S. Perhaps they should do more or differently, but they certainly do it. And regardless, my main point was they challenge U.S. authority more than Chinese authority, which also seems hard to debate if you look at their website.

eternalban 10y ago
> Your demonstration is one incident. Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? Remind me: How did The New York Times cover that event.
- hackuser 10y ago
  I can't really answer, and I'm not interested in, what happens in a hypothetical world. Can you provide some links to real-world info that answers your last question? Here are some facts: The Times broke, and heavily reported the NSA illegal surveillance story under Bush, Snowden's leaks, Hillary Clinton's email server, Trump's tax non-payment, and much, much more. I'm not here to be their defender, but it doesn't help advance knowledge or our world to bash them.
- kahirsch 10y ago
  Some NY Times articles related to USA PATRIOT Act and similar issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-senate-democrat-opposes-white-house-s.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-groups-fault-plan-listen-search-seize.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civil-liberties-americans-give-in-to-race-profiling.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civ... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the-rule-of-fear-another-lesson-from-world-war-ii-internments.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-memory-of-internment.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-time-of-fear.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-tim... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an-electronic-eye.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnooping-for-sounds-and-images-not-suspects.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnoo... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawmakers-ashcroft-seeking-broad-powers-says-congress-must-act.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawma... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-negotiators-back-scaled-down-bill-to-battle-terror.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-democrats-in-senate-are-pressured-on-terror-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-plan-expand-us-powers-alarming-some-colorado.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-terrorism-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-house-panel-approves-bill-expanding-surveillance.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-terror-laws-near-votes-in-house-and-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legislation-not-so-fast-senator-says-others-smooth-way-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bill-greatly-expanding-surveillance-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congress-house-passes-terrorism-bill-much-like-senate-s-but.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congr... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legislation-privacy-debate-focuses-fbi-use-internet-wiretap.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house-vote-approves-new-powers-for-antiterror-investigators.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the-legislation-terror-bill-clears-house-moves-to-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-security-and-liberty-a-familiar-battle-fought-and-won.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-sec... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legislation-antiterrorism-bill-passes-us-gets-expanded-powers.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bush-quickly-signs-measure-aiding-antiterrorism.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until-dark.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-liberties.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-bush-s-new-rules-fight-terror-transform-legal-landscape.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-b... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-can-happen-here.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liberty-security-ashcroft-weighs-easing-fbi-limits-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liber... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-war-and-the-constitution.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-w...
  - eternalban 10y ago
    Here are nytimes.com front pages for Oct. 13 and 14 2001. This is the day that congress passed Patriot Act. http://web.archive.org/web/20011013055359/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011013055359/http://nytimes.com... http://web.archive.org/web/20011014065756/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011014065756/http://nytimes.com... Front page worthy, in your opinion? And a no robots showed up on Oct 19, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011019003114/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011019003114/http://nytimes.com... And no archive of record for Oct 26, 2001 (Bush signed on this date): October 26, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011026031103/http://www.nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011026031103/http://www.nytimes...
- int_19h 10y ago
  > Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? We can try to find out. Did NYT ever run a single page on SORM-2 in Russia?

eternalban 10y ago

> Your demonstration is one incident. Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? Remind me: How did The New York Times cover that event.

hackuser 10y ago
I can't really answer, and I'm not interested in, what happens in a hypothetical world. Can you provide some links to real-world info that answers your last question? Here are some facts: The Times broke, and heavily reported the NSA illegal surveillance story under Bush, Snowden's leaks, Hillary Clinton's email server, Trump's tax non-payment, and much, much more. I'm not here to be their defender, but it doesn't help advance knowledge or our world to bash them.
kahirsch 10y ago
Some NY Times articles related to USA PATRIOT Act and similar issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-senate-democrat-opposes-white-house-s.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-groups-fault-plan-listen-search-seize.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civil-liberties-americans-give-in-to-race-profiling.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civ... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the-rule-of-fear-another-lesson-from-world-war-ii-internments.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-memory-of-internment.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-time-of-fear.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-tim... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an-electronic-eye.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnooping-for-sounds-and-images-not-suspects.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnoo... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawmakers-ashcroft-seeking-broad-powers-says-congress-must-act.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawma... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-negotiators-back-scaled-down-bill-to-battle-terror.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-democrats-in-senate-are-pressured-on-terror-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-plan-expand-us-powers-alarming-some-colorado.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-terrorism-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-house-panel-approves-bill-expanding-surveillance.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-terror-laws-near-votes-in-house-and-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legislation-not-so-fast-senator-says-others-smooth-way-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bill-greatly-expanding-surveillance-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congress-house-passes-terrorism-bill-much-like-senate-s-but.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congr... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legislation-privacy-debate-focuses-fbi-use-internet-wiretap.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house-vote-approves-new-powers-for-antiterror-investigators.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the-legislation-terror-bill-clears-house-moves-to-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-security-and-liberty-a-familiar-battle-fought-and-won.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-sec... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legislation-antiterrorism-bill-passes-us-gets-expanded-powers.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bush-quickly-signs-measure-aiding-antiterrorism.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until-dark.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-liberties.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-bush-s-new-rules-fight-terror-transform-legal-landscape.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-b... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-can-happen-here.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liberty-security-ashcroft-weighs-easing-fbi-limits-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liber... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-war-and-the-constitution.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-w...
- eternalban 10y ago
  Here are nytimes.com front pages for Oct. 13 and 14 2001. This is the day that congress passed Patriot Act. http://web.archive.org/web/20011013055359/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011013055359/http://nytimes.com... http://web.archive.org/web/20011014065756/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011014065756/http://nytimes.com... Front page worthy, in your opinion? And a no robots showed up on Oct 19, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011019003114/http://nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011019003114/http://nytimes.com... And no archive of record for Oct 26, 2001 (Bush signed on this date): October 26, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011026031103/http://www.nytimes.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20011026031103/http://www.nytimes...
int_19h 10y ago
> Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? We can try to find out. Did NYT ever run a single page on SORM-2 in Russia?