5 ms·

> Why are other publications (the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times are mentioned) doing to keep Chinese authorities happy? It is an interesting question

> Why are other publications (the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times are mentioned) doing to keep Chinese authorities happy? It is an interesting question. > The NY Times doesn't publish anything about China that they don't publish about many other countries. Certainly coverage of the U.S. and U.K. is much more challenging to those authorities. I don't think that is true. Some of us marched against the Iraq war post 911 in quite substantial numbers. I still remember the demo in DC that went from the Mall to Navy Yard. It was huuuuge as the incoming President would have it. Did New Times put a front page picture with screaming headline about our demonstrations? Nope. (I think Washinton Post mentioned it in the Metro section.) Compare to when Egyptians took to the streets. It was certainly front page on The New York Times, our self designated "paper of record".

hackuser 10y ago
Your demonstration is one incident. Just look at the NY Times homepage daily; you will find continual challenges to those in authority in the U.S. Perhaps they should do more or differently, but they certainly do it. And regardless, my main point was they challenge U.S. authority more than Chinese authority, which also seems hard to debate if you look at their website.
- eternalban 10y ago
  > Your demonstration is one incident. Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? Remind me: How did The New York Times cover that event.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    I can't really answer, and I'm not interested in, what happens in a hypothetical world. Can you provide some links to real-world info that answers your last question? Here are some facts: The Times broke, and heavily reported the NSA illegal surveillance story under Bush, Snowden's leaks, Hillary Clinton's email server, Trump's tax non-payment, and much, much more. I'm not here to be their defender, but it doesn't help advance knowledge or our world to bash them.
  - kahirsch 10y ago
    Some NY Times articles related to USA PATRIOT Act and similar issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-senate-democrat-opposes-white-house-s.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-groups-fault-plan-listen-search-seize.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civil-liberties-americans-give-in-to-race-profiling.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civ... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the-rule-of-fear-another-lesson-from-world-war-ii-internments.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-memory-of-internment.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-time-of-fear.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-tim... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an-electronic-eye.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnooping-for-sounds-and-images-not-suspects.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnoo... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawmakers-ashcroft-seeking-broad-powers-says-congress-must-act.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawma... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-negotiators-back-scaled-down-bill-to-battle-terror.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-democrats-in-senate-are-pressured-on-terror-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-plan-expand-us-powers-alarming-some-colorado.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-terrorism-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-house-panel-approves-bill-expanding-surveillance.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-terror-laws-near-votes-in-house-and-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legislation-not-so-fast-senator-says-others-smooth-way-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bill-greatly-expanding-surveillance-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congress-house-passes-terrorism-bill-much-like-senate-s-but.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congr... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legislation-privacy-debate-focuses-fbi-use-internet-wiretap.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house-vote-approves-new-powers-for-antiterror-investigators.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the-legislation-terror-bill-clears-house-moves-to-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-security-and-liberty-a-familiar-battle-fought-and-won.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-sec... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legislation-antiterrorism-bill-passes-us-gets-expanded-powers.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bush-quickly-signs-measure-aiding-antiterrorism.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until-dark.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-liberties.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-bush-s-new-rules-fight-terror-transform-legal-landscape.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-b... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-can-happen-here.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liberty-security-ashcroft-weighs-easing-fbi-limits-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liber... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-war-and-the-constitution.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-w...
  - int_19h 10y ago
    > Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? We can try to find out. Did NYT ever run a single page on SORM-2 in Russia?
kahirsch 10y ago
> Did New Times put a front page picture with screaming headline about our demonstrations? http://imgur.com/rd6WRMl http://imgur.com/rd6WRMl Jan 19, 2003 front page picture with link to inside story http://imgur.com/tyau0FK http://imgur.com/tyau0FK Jan 19, 2003 inside page Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally-thousands-converge-capital-protest-plans-for-war.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally... Jan 20 Editorial supporting protests http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/opinion/a-stirring-in-the-nation.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/opinion/a-stirring-in-the-... Here's the NYT top story on Feb 16, 2003: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/world/threats-responses-protests-1.5-million-demonstrators-cities-across-europe-oppose.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/world/threats-responses-pr... Here's a low-res picture of the front page, with 3 pictures of the demonstrations: http://imgur.com/KN6YhEx http://imgur.com/KN6YhEx
- eternalban 10y ago
  Thanks for that. I don't remember that front page but entirely possible that my memory fails me. But I don't know what to make of this: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally-thousands-converge-capital-protest-plans-for-war.html http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/... Per archive.org, it was "Saved 3 times between April 5, 2013 and May 27, 2015". [p.s. edit: and unfortunately archive.org does not have Jan. 19, 2001 recorded: https://web.archive.org/web/20030101000000*/http://www.nytimes.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20030101000000*/http://www.nytim...]

hackuser 10y ago

Your demonstration is one incident. Just look at the NY Times homepage daily; you will find continual challenges to those in authority in the U.S. Perhaps they should do more or differently, but they certainly do it. And regardless, my main point was they challenge U.S. authority more than Chinese authority, which also seems hard to debate if you look at their website.

eternalban 10y ago
> Your demonstration is one incident. Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? Remind me: How did The New York Times cover that event.
- hackuser 10y ago
  I can't really answer, and I'm not interested in, what happens in a hypothetical world. Can you provide some links to real-world info that answers your last question? Here are some facts: The Times broke, and heavily reported the NSA illegal surveillance story under Bush, Snowden's leaks, Hillary Clinton's email server, Trump's tax non-payment, and much, much more. I'm not here to be their defender, but it doesn't help advance knowledge or our world to bash them.
- kahirsch 10y ago
  Some NY Times articles related to USA PATRIOT Act and similar issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-senate-democrat-opposes-white-house-s.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-groups-fault-plan-listen-search-seize.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civil-liberties-americans-give-in-to-race-profiling.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civ... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the-rule-of-fear-another-lesson-from-world-war-ii-internments.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-memory-of-internment.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-time-of-fear.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/25/opinion/liberties-in-a-tim... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an-electronic-eye.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/27/technology/living-under-an... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnooping-for-sounds-and-images-not-suspects.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/arts/arts-online-cybersnoo... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawmakers-ashcroft-seeking-broad-powers-says-congress-must-act.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/us/nation-challenged-lawma... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-negotiators-back-scaled-down-bill-to-battle-terror.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-democrats-in-senate-are-pressured-on-terror-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safety-liberty-plan-expand-us-powers-alarming-some-colorado.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-terrorism-bill.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/opinion/toward-a-balanced-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-congress-house-panel-approves-bill-expanding-surveillance.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/04/us/a-nation-challenged-con... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-legislation-terror-laws-near-votes-in-house-and-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/05/us/a-nation-challenged-leg... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legislation-not-so-fast-senator-says-others-smooth-way-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bill-greatly-expanding-surveillance-power.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/12/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congress-house-passes-terrorism-bill-much-like-senate-s-but.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-congr... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legislation-privacy-debate-focuses-fbi-use-internet-wiretap.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house-vote-approves-new-powers-for-antiterror-investigators.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/us/nation-challenged-house... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the-legislation-terror-bill-clears-house-moves-to-senate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/25/us/a-nation-challenged-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-security-and-liberty-a-familiar-battle-fought-and-won.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/a-nation-challenged-sec... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legislation-antiterrorism-bill-passes-us-gets-expanded-powers.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legislation-bush-quickly-signs-measure-aiding-antiterrorism.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-legis... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until-dark.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/24/opinion/journal-wait-until... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-liberties.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/opinion/liberties-uncivil-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-bush-s-new-rules-fight-terror-transform-legal-landscape.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/25/us/nation-challenged-law-b... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-can-happen-here.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/opinion/abroad-at-home-it-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liberty-security-ashcroft-weighs-easing-fbi-limits-for.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/us/nation-challenged-liber... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-war-and-the-constitution.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/02/opinion/justice-deformed-w...
- int_19h 10y ago
  > Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? We can try to find out. Did NYT ever run a single page on SORM-2 in Russia?

kahirsch 10y ago

> Did New Times put a front page picture with screaming headline about our demonstrations? http://imgur.com/rd6WRMl http://imgur.com/rd6WRMl Jan 19, 2003 front page picture with link to inside story http://imgur.com/tyau0FK http://imgur.com/tyau0FK Jan 19, 2003 inside page Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally-thousands-converge-capital-protest-plans-for-war.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally... Jan 20 Editorial supporting protests http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/opinion/a-stirring-in-the-nation.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/opinion/a-stirring-in-the-... Here's the NYT top story on Feb 16, 2003: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/world/threats-responses-protests-1.5-million-demonstrators-cities-across-europe-oppose.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/world/threats-responses-pr... Here's a low-res picture of the front page, with 3 pictures of the demonstrations: http://imgur.com/KN6YhEx http://imgur.com/KN6YhEx

eternalban 10y ago
Thanks for that. I don't remember that front page but entirely possible that my memory fails me. But I don't know what to make of this: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/us/threats-responses-rally-thousands-converge-capital-protest-plans-for-war.html http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/... Per archive.org, it was "Saved 3 times between April 5, 2013 and May 27, 2015". [p.s. edit: and unfortunately archive.org does not have Jan. 19, 2001 recorded: https://web.archive.org/web/20030101000000*/http://www.nytimes.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20030101000000*/http://www.nytim...]