4 ms·

> If you're willing to break the social norm, why not go all the way and be free? Because Linux is only free if your time is worthless is still about as true t

by serge2k 10y ago

> If you're willing to break the social norm, why not go all the way and be free? Because Linux is only free if your time is worthless is still about as true today as ever before. Oh sure, I can use most of my hardware without too many issues. It took me hours to configure my monitor because of some issue with EDID, but I'm willing to count that as an outlier. The problem is I get Ubuntu working and then I still have to deal with fucking Unity. OSX works out of the box with the hardware, and the OS is just a much more pleasant desktop experience while being a good enough OS to get work done (vs windows being more difficult).

zeveb 10y ago
> The problem is I get Ubuntu working and then I still have to deal with fucking Unity. I solve that by using neither Ubuntu nor Unity:-) > OSX works out of the box with the hardware, and the OS is just a much more pleasant desktop experience while being a good enough OS to get work done (vs windows being more difficult). But macOS is only pleasant if impeding your workflow doesn't affect your pleasure. Yes, certainly, trying to use one of the major desktop environments as a replacement for macOS may be worse (although I'm personally unconvinced: GNOME & Unity don't cause me pain like using a Mac, but I'm sure I could get used to the latter). But try using a tiling WM, with a good terminal emulator, an editor & a browser. After having spent, maybe, two weeks total effort customising my environment, I have something which is a much more pleasant computing experience that either macOS or Windows. My computer gets out of my way when I need it to; it's an extension of my brain; it's a tool, not a toy I'm constantly playing with. Frankly, the desktop metaphor was probably a mistake in the long run, and choosing to ape the desktop metaphor was probably a mistake for free software. We should have focused on the next advance, not tried to reproduce an advance, but this time with fewer resources and more folks pulling in different directions. GUIs are great, but draggable windows really aren't so much. GUI elements are great, but being forced to mouse around for any action really isn't so much. Curated software can provide a great ride, but it's not so great when you need to get off the rails and explore new territory.
- serge2k 10y ago
  > But try using a tiling WM, No. I don't want to. i don't get off on tweaking window environments and other BS. I don't want an ugly half baked interface. This is why I honestly do think "linux is free if your time is worthless" is more than just a snarky comment. > After having spent, maybe, two weeks total effort customising my environment Two weeks. That's absurd. I can go into the apple store and buy a mac and just install homebrew. takes minutes.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    > > But try using a tiling WM, > No. I don't want to. i don't get off on tweaking window environments and other BS. I don't want an ugly half baked interface. That's a bit like not wanting to use a jackhammer to break up asphalt because it doesn't have velvet handles. A tiling WM is neither ugly, nor half-baked, nor does it require tweaking (or require much). > Two weeks. That's absurd. I can go into the apple store and buy a mac and just install homebrew. takes minutes. That's a bit like saying it's absurd that it took four years to build the Golden Gate Bridge, when after all anyone can build a footbridge for his backyard in a weekend. The interface you have available to you on your Mac hinders you more than the interface I have available to me on my Linux boxes; the interface you have available to you on your Mac augments you less than the interface I have available to me on my Linux boxes. I invested two weeks, and they have made me an order of magnitude more productive. This is, yet again, a case of the Blub Paradox. Surely you can see that there are less-powerful, more-painful interfaces to use than that of a Mac — is it so difficult to believe that there are more-powerful, less-painful interfaces than a Mac? If you accept that it's at least possible, are you willing to entertain my contention that window management is in fact wasted time? Are you willing to entertain my contention that having all my regularly-used programs a few keystrokes away can be faster than moving my hands off of the keyboard and using the mouse? Are you willing to entertain my contention that a minimalist interface is — or at least can be — less distracting and thus enables one to enter the zone more easily and stay in it longer?
    - linkmotif 10y ago
      What a wonderful and generous explanation!!!

by serge2k 10y ago

zeveb 10y ago

> The problem is I get Ubuntu working and then I still have to deal with fucking Unity. I solve that by using neither Ubuntu nor Unity:-) > OSX works out of the box with the hardware, and the OS is just a much more pleasant desktop experience while being a good enough OS to get work done (vs windows being more difficult). But macOS is only pleasant if impeding your workflow doesn't affect your pleasure. Yes, certainly, trying to use one of the major desktop environments as a replacement for macOS may be worse (although I'm personally unconvinced: GNOME & Unity don't cause me pain like using a Mac, but I'm sure I could get used to the latter). But try using a tiling WM, with a good terminal emulator, an editor & a browser. After having spent, maybe, two weeks total effort customising my environment, I have something which is a much more pleasant computing experience that either macOS or Windows. My computer gets out of my way when I need it to; it's an extension of my brain; it's a tool, not a toy I'm constantly playing with. Frankly, the desktop metaphor was probably a mistake in the long run, and choosing to ape the desktop metaphor was probably a mistake for free software. We should have focused on the next advance, not tried to reproduce an advance, but this time with fewer resources and more folks pulling in different directions. GUIs are great, but draggable windows really aren't so much. GUI elements are great, but being forced to mouse around for any action really isn't so much. Curated software can provide a great ride, but it's not so great when you need to get off the rails and explore new territory.

serge2k 10y ago
> But try using a tiling WM, No. I don't want to. i don't get off on tweaking window environments and other BS. I don't want an ugly half baked interface. This is why I honestly do think "linux is free if your time is worthless" is more than just a snarky comment. > After having spent, maybe, two weeks total effort customising my environment Two weeks. That's absurd. I can go into the apple store and buy a mac and just install homebrew. takes minutes.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > > But try using a tiling WM, > No. I don't want to. i don't get off on tweaking window environments and other BS. I don't want an ugly half baked interface. That's a bit like not wanting to use a jackhammer to break up asphalt because it doesn't have velvet handles. A tiling WM is neither ugly, nor half-baked, nor does it require tweaking (or require much). > Two weeks. That's absurd. I can go into the apple store and buy a mac and just install homebrew. takes minutes. That's a bit like saying it's absurd that it took four years to build the Golden Gate Bridge, when after all anyone can build a footbridge for his backyard in a weekend. The interface you have available to you on your Mac hinders you more than the interface I have available to me on my Linux boxes; the interface you have available to you on your Mac augments you less than the interface I have available to me on my Linux boxes. I invested two weeks, and they have made me an order of magnitude more productive. This is, yet again, a case of the Blub Paradox. Surely you can see that there are less-powerful, more-painful interfaces to use than that of a Mac — is it so difficult to believe that there are more-powerful, less-painful interfaces than a Mac? If you accept that it's at least possible, are you willing to entertain my contention that window management is in fact wasted time? Are you willing to entertain my contention that having all my regularly-used programs a few keystrokes away can be faster than moving my hands off of the keyboard and using the mouse? Are you willing to entertain my contention that a minimalist interface is — or at least can be — less distracting and thus enables one to enter the zone more easily and stay in it longer?
  - linkmotif 10y ago
    What a wonderful and generous explanation!!!