5 ms·

Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch, and Snapchat is rumored to have over 1,000 employees? There really are no examples of something at Medium's sc

by rco8786 10y ago

Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch, and Snapchat is rumored to have over 1,000 employees? There really are no examples of something at Medium's scale being built and maintained by 5 engineers.

melvinmt 10y ago
Instagram had around ~50 million users and 13 employees when it was acquired by Facebook.
- sulam 10y ago
  Probably not the best example since the rumor was they were all constantly paged. But yeah, some sites don't require much engineering horsepower.
  - stevens32 10y ago
    What do you mean by constantly paged?
    - mynegation 10y ago
      Got a "pager" message about problems requiring immediate attention. These days it's probably iMessage or Slack or WhatsApp, not the actual pager.
    - was_boring 10y ago
      pagerduty.com
carlivar 10y ago
> Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch You say that like it's a bad thing.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  Yes, I suspect that it is a bad thing. People who like modern UIs greatly outnumber people who like ones from the '90s. The most straightforward explanation as to why Craigslist remains king is simple: network effects.
  - neilcrj 10y ago
    > People who like modern UIs Even more people like stable UIs.
  - alexandercrohde 10y ago
    Mind you that you're writing that point on news.ycombinator.com (another '90s-esque site). Maybe people prefer a "newer" web interface when it doesn't have ads, banners, popups, auto-playing-content, clutter (see yahoo), oversized images, 25 tracking scripts loading, but the lesson seems to be that too simple trumps too complex. An example that gets it exactly right IMHO is gmail. The OTHER problem with having a nice UI is then people start to want to redesign every year, buy new logos, constantly adapt new design and FE trends (make it flat! make it angular! make it ES6! make it react! now pre-render on the server!).
    - pkamb 10y ago
      The "how it looks" of Craigslist is fine, just like HN. The "how it works" is abysmal.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    I can't think of a single modern UI that I like.
    - Angostura 10y ago
      Presumably you're browsing HN using Lynx.
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    People who like modern UIs greatly outnumber people who like ones from the '90s. Maybe initially when the fancy graphics grab their attention. But as they start to work their brains notice the "fancy" less and less and usability takes over: Just like in games like shooters or Starcraft the pros actually turn down graphics settings - they don't notice the graphics any more so they don't are! Same as why after a month you stop noticing the wonderful paintings you carefully selected for your home's walls. I haven't looked at mine in years. That#s why we get reddit /r/funny posts where people replace the family portraits in their parents house and then make a reddit post with the funny replacement picture "2 weeks and nobody has noticed anything yet". Brains are made to tune out anything a) not new b) not used So you end up with Google and reddit as major websites. I'm not quite sure where that leaves websites like USAToday, but I highly suspect people learn to navigate it despite the graphics, and the design only serves to attract people initially. I on't think it helps retain users once they've been there for a while, except that keeping it stable helps keeping customers. I know that Germany's top 1 or 2 news website www.spiegel.de (the other one competing for the top spot is a tabloid, bild.de) decided to stick to a much more text-based linear design even after a recent major redesign. So while a look at actually successful websites doesn't tell us that simple designs always win your claim certainly isn't supported by the facts. Probably not as-is, and when it applies a lot of terms and conditions apply: What kind of people does a site attract? What kind of content do they serve? How long do people stay, how much do they interact with and use the site? Is it mostly "look at" content, or are there many interactions (reddit: lots of "using", USAtoday: mostly "looking")? Etc. I would make the claim the more people actually use a site (interact with the contents - clicking, navigating, writing, searching in the broadest sense, not just the "Search" function, for example trying to quickly find the top comments on a page) the less important the "fanciness"/"modernity" factor. As you use an interface your brain stops noticing how it looks and concentrates on how it feels (for example when it's always hard to hit that tiny "expand" icon on a comment thread right next to a complete different icon separated by only two pixels, how the icons look like will be lost).
Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
I built a service with a buddy of mine (so 2 engineers total) that achieved a scale comparable to Medium circa-2014/2015 (given baseless guesses about Medium's scale), with a similar featureset (perhaps more sophisticated, apples to oranges somewhat). It's definitely possible to achieve scale on a small team.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  But... As you say, your guesses about their scale are baseless...
anewhnaccount 10y ago
How about Reddit? That's a site that's undergone a number of UI changes and I'm pretty sure even now still has <30 engineers. It had around 6 in 2012 I believe.
- jrnichols 10y ago
  Doesn't Imgur still only have about 15 employees too?
kuschku 10y ago
> There really are no examples of something at Medium's scale being built and maintained by 5 engineers. There’s WhatsApp. A billion users, and 35 employees, running on less than 100 off-the-shelf servers.
bluedino 10y ago
>> Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch, It looks similar but to say it hasn't changed is silly

by rco8786 10y ago

melvinmt 10y ago

Instagram had around ~50 million users and 13 employees when it was acquired by Facebook.

sulam 10y ago
Probably not the best example since the rumor was they were all constantly paged. But yeah, some sites don't require much engineering horsepower.
- stevens32 10y ago
  What do you mean by constantly paged?
  - mynegation 10y ago
    Got a "pager" message about problems requiring immediate attention. These days it's probably iMessage or Slack or WhatsApp, not the actual pager.
  - was_boring 10y ago
    pagerduty.com

carlivar 10y ago

> Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch You say that like it's a bad thing.

pcwalton 10y ago
Yes, I suspect that it is a bad thing. People who like modern UIs greatly outnumber people who like ones from the '90s. The most straightforward explanation as to why Craigslist remains king is simple: network effects.
- neilcrj 10y ago
  > People who like modern UIs Even more people like stable UIs.
- alexandercrohde 10y ago
  Mind you that you're writing that point on news.ycombinator.com (another '90s-esque site). Maybe people prefer a "newer" web interface when it doesn't have ads, banners, popups, auto-playing-content, clutter (see yahoo), oversized images, 25 tracking scripts loading, but the lesson seems to be that too simple trumps too complex. An example that gets it exactly right IMHO is gmail. The OTHER problem with having a nice UI is then people start to want to redesign every year, buy new logos, constantly adapt new design and FE trends (make it flat! make it angular! make it ES6! make it react! now pre-render on the server!).
  - pkamb 10y ago
    The "how it looks" of Craigslist is fine, just like HN. The "how it works" is abysmal.
- mulmen 10y ago
  I can't think of a single modern UI that I like.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    Presumably you're browsing HN using Lynx.
- Noseshine 10y ago
  People who like modern UIs greatly outnumber people who like ones from the '90s. Maybe initially when the fancy graphics grab their attention. But as they start to work their brains notice the "fancy" less and less and usability takes over: Just like in games like shooters or Starcraft the pros actually turn down graphics settings - they don't notice the graphics any more so they don't are! Same as why after a month you stop noticing the wonderful paintings you carefully selected for your home's walls. I haven't looked at mine in years. That#s why we get reddit /r/funny posts where people replace the family portraits in their parents house and then make a reddit post with the funny replacement picture "2 weeks and nobody has noticed anything yet". Brains are made to tune out anything a) not new b) not used So you end up with Google and reddit as major websites. I'm not quite sure where that leaves websites like USAToday, but I highly suspect people learn to navigate it despite the graphics, and the design only serves to attract people initially. I on't think it helps retain users once they've been there for a while, except that keeping it stable helps keeping customers. I know that Germany's top 1 or 2 news website www.spiegel.de (the other one competing for the top spot is a tabloid, bild.de) decided to stick to a much more text-based linear design even after a recent major redesign. So while a look at actually successful websites doesn't tell us that simple designs always win your claim certainly isn't supported by the facts. Probably not as-is, and when it applies a lot of terms and conditions apply: What kind of people does a site attract? What kind of content do they serve? How long do people stay, how much do they interact with and use the site? Is it mostly "look at" content, or are there many interactions (reddit: lots of "using", USAtoday: mostly "looking")? Etc. I would make the claim the more people actually use a site (interact with the contents - clicking, navigating, writing, searching in the broadest sense, not just the "Search" function, for example trying to quickly find the top comments on a page) the less important the "fanciness"/"modernity" factor. As you use an interface your brain stops noticing how it looks and concentrates on how it feels (for example when it's always hard to hit that tiny "expand" icon on a comment thread right next to a complete different icon separated by only two pixels, how the icons look like will be lost).

Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago

I built a service with a buddy of mine (so 2 engineers total) that achieved a scale comparable to Medium circa-2014/2015 (given baseless guesses about Medium's scale), with a similar featureset (perhaps more sophisticated, apples to oranges somewhat). It's definitely possible to achieve scale on a small team.

sanderjd 10y ago
But... As you say, your guesses about their scale are baseless...

anewhnaccount 10y ago

How about Reddit? That's a site that's undergone a number of UI changes and I'm pretty sure even now still has <30 engineers. It had around 6 in 2012 I believe.

jrnichols 10y ago
Doesn't Imgur still only have about 15 employees too?

kuschku 10y ago

> There really are no examples of something at Medium's scale being built and maintained by 5 engineers. There’s WhatsApp. A billion users, and 35 employees, running on less than 100 off-the-shelf servers.

bluedino 10y ago

>> Craigslist hasn't changed their UX since launch, It looks similar but to say it hasn't changed is silly