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This plays to the SV mentality, which is ok for those into that mindset. Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successf

This plays to the SV mentality, which is ok for those into that mindset. Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successful, die. Loosely, from a talk i heard ages ago - the universe has no purpose. No goal or objective. It just is. Similarly, a dance or a song. It's purpose is not to end, but rather the thing itself, in it's entirety. If the objective was the finish, you'd start a dance where it ends, and be done with it. Life is a little like that - ALL of it, every moment, is like a song. Each note is like a day, stanza like a year. Have fun, always. ...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death. I love writing code, but i love other stuff that takes me away from code for months on end too. The SV thing scares the h*ll out of me. The obsession over the next big thing, being right, getting paid, being a name... I get depressed just thinking about it all.

nether 10y ago
It's a little perverse how "successful" means "extremely wealthy" around these parts. It could also mean just having happy relationships and basic material needs met. In fact I suspect that is a far more common definition in the world. A really eye opening experience was hanging out with my hispanic girlfriend's family. They were just content. I'd tell them about personal finance tricks, like credit card churning or buying things in bulk, and they'd blow me off. They'd rather save by putting spare change into a jar, or putting in extra hours, which did work for them. They got to go on vacations, buy clothes they liked. It was like the pain that I felt with wasting money didn't happen for them, they just took it all in stride. They weren't reaching for anything, and they seemed much happier and even more personally secure and present than most tech people I've met.
- Spearchucker 10y ago
  Yeah I can relate. If I'd saved all my money instead of kitesurfing off a chartered yacht in the Caribbean, heli-skiing in Chamonix or building a 1:10 scale, radio-controlled Mercedes Benz LPS1418 replica (amongst herds of other stuff) I suspect I'd have been able to retire at 40 (I'm 46). And yet even so I lead a very, VERY privileged life. And lifestyle.
- bittercynic 10y ago
  I think this confuses symptoms and causes of moderate wealth. When you're moderately wealthy, you can churn cards without the temptation to use them for things that you really can't afford. If you and your family are living month-to-month, it is nearly impossible to restrain yourself when you see how much credit is available. Similarly, if you're from a large, close family where everyone lives month-to-month, you might be perceived as greedy if you start to accumulate wealth instead of sharing with your family. For some reason it is more forgivable to imperil yourself by borrowing money to buy an expensive car than it is to let money pile up in your savings account. If you're from a family where there is a culture of long-term financial thinking, this stuff is pretty easy. If you aren't, it isn't. It is partly that you haven't learned habits of financial planning, but also that there are cultural forces that prevent it.
  - jay_kyburz 10y ago
    The only reason you would ever need to churn cards is if you are buying things you can't afford. Pay the cards off and burn them. You dont need them, you sure dont need to waste your time juggling them - playing thier game.
    - bittercynic 10y ago
      You may not need to, but it can be worthwhile. You can get free flights and cash back on many cards. The normal reward rates are very low, but some cards have sign up bonuses that are worth a few hundred dollars if you spend a certain amount in the first few months. Many cards will keep giving you the sign up bonuses if you cancel and re-sign every couple of years. For me, the few hundred dollars is worth the trouble of churning the cards.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
> Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successful, die. What about: learn and work, solve some important problems for people around you or make their lives somehow better, die? I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle. This seems self-contradictory. If all the world's problems were solved, what would you do? That's what's properly valuable. If you don't do some of that before you die, how did you live a good life? You have to mix instrumental tasks and actually good things to do.
jay_kyburz 10y ago
>...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death. This sounds like somebody who doesn't enjoy working. I love the idea that life is a song and you should dance around all day enjoying every moment, but what about if accomplishing things, making things, doing things, is what brings you that enjoyment. If you song is to make things, you should find some friends and make things together! It will hardly seem like work at all.

nether 10y ago

It's a little perverse how "successful" means "extremely wealthy" around these parts. It could also mean just having happy relationships and basic material needs met. In fact I suspect that is a far more common definition in the world. A really eye opening experience was hanging out with my hispanic girlfriend's family. They were just content. I'd tell them about personal finance tricks, like credit card churning or buying things in bulk, and they'd blow me off. They'd rather save by putting spare change into a jar, or putting in extra hours, which did work for them. They got to go on vacations, buy clothes they liked. It was like the pain that I felt with wasting money didn't happen for them, they just took it all in stride. They weren't reaching for anything, and they seemed much happier and even more personally secure and present than most tech people I've met.

Spearchucker 10y ago
Yeah I can relate. If I'd saved all my money instead of kitesurfing off a chartered yacht in the Caribbean, heli-skiing in Chamonix or building a 1:10 scale, radio-controlled Mercedes Benz LPS1418 replica (amongst herds of other stuff) I suspect I'd have been able to retire at 40 (I'm 46). And yet even so I lead a very, VERY privileged life. And lifestyle.
bittercynic 10y ago
I think this confuses symptoms and causes of moderate wealth. When you're moderately wealthy, you can churn cards without the temptation to use them for things that you really can't afford. If you and your family are living month-to-month, it is nearly impossible to restrain yourself when you see how much credit is available. Similarly, if you're from a large, close family where everyone lives month-to-month, you might be perceived as greedy if you start to accumulate wealth instead of sharing with your family. For some reason it is more forgivable to imperil yourself by borrowing money to buy an expensive car than it is to let money pile up in your savings account. If you're from a family where there is a culture of long-term financial thinking, this stuff is pretty easy. If you aren't, it isn't. It is partly that you haven't learned habits of financial planning, but also that there are cultural forces that prevent it.
- jay_kyburz 10y ago
  The only reason you would ever need to churn cards is if you are buying things you can't afford. Pay the cards off and burn them. You dont need them, you sure dont need to waste your time juggling them - playing thier game.
  - bittercynic 10y ago
    You may not need to, but it can be worthwhile. You can get free flights and cash back on many cards. The normal reward rates are very low, but some cards have sign up bonuses that are worth a few hundred dollars if you spend a certain amount in the first few months. Many cards will keep giving you the sign up bonuses if you cancel and re-sign every couple of years. For me, the few hundred dollars is worth the trouble of churning the cards.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

> Personally, I feel like it promotes the life-objective point of view. Work, be successful, die. What about: learn and work, solve some important problems for people around you or make their lives somehow better, die? I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>I much prefer this outlook to both "life-objective point of view" you mentioned and the IMO nihilistic "enjoy every moment", "focus on family and relationships" lifestyle. This seems self-contradictory. If all the world's problems were solved, what would you do? That's what's properly valuable. If you don't do some of that before you die, how did you live a good life? You have to mix instrumental tasks and actually good things to do.

jay_kyburz 10y ago

>...or, spend your best years slaving away for a (maybe) payoff at 40, 50 or 60, move into a retirement home and wait for death. This sounds like somebody who doesn't enjoy working. I love the idea that life is a song and you should dance around all day enjoying every moment, but what about if accomplishing things, making things, doing things, is what brings you that enjoyment. If you song is to make things, you should find some friends and make things together! It will hardly seem like work at all.