5 ms·

Sadly video games seem to be the only source of agency for a great number of people. Our lives seem to be more and more constrained without any authentic choice

by jboggan 10y ago

Sadly video games seem to be the only source of agency for a great number of people. Our lives seem to be more and more constrained without any authentic choice available to us and in response we retreat to artificial environments.

frogfuzion 10y ago
I'd have to disagree. More and more constrained as compared to what time in history? Video games, and all the media choices available we have are a direct result of not being constrained. And supposing that we are playing more and more video games why is that sad?
- crpatino 10y ago
  > And supposing that we are playing more and more video games why is that sad? No more or less sad that some upperclass Victorian types reading more and more novels. Or even before that, some medieval upper clerics overindulging in rich foods. Doing it sparingly is good, - the well earned prize after a long day of hard work, perhaps. Doing it more is even better, - meaning you are actually successful at your more productive pursuits and can spare the time/resources to indulge. But doing it "more and more" implies an unhealthy detachment from both your responsibilities and all other goodies the rest of the world has to offer.
- speeder 10y ago
  I think when he referred to "authentic choice", to be about the choice of being normal and boring. Right now we have lots of choice, but not meaningful ones. For example: a medieval peasant was "fated" to die peasant, and do peasant things... Yet, that medieval peasant, had a great probability of being able to complete life cycle, of being born, be someone's apprentice, date, have fun and mess around, sometimes with lots of free time, work hard, marry, have kids, and eventually die. Right now there are millions of millenials, even ones already old enough to be grandparents if they were in medieval era, that can't have kids, can't have jobs that sustain themselves, and are forced to live with their parents. Is life more confortable, with TV, games, modern medicine, and truckloads of information? Sure yes, from that perspective life never been better, we are the apex of civilization. But is that truly important? When people have even a instinct that drives them to want to marry and have kids, what is the point of the future when all you can do is stay unemployed in your parents home and have only fleeting relationships? Is the modern amount of boatloads of sex with random stranger pleasurable? Yes, a lot. But... is it useful? Is it a choice that most of the population actually wants, even if they don't know in their 18s? We have now lots of choices, except the choice that was the default for most of human history: have a boring job, marry, have kids, see the kids have boring jobs themselves, and die. It wouldn't surprise me if the future got rid even of the "die" part, maybe when someone discover immortality they might make it mandatory, people would of course agree that being immortal is awesome and great... but that doesn't mean it would be actually better.
  - frogfuzion 10y ago
    "We have now lots of choices, except the choice that was the default for most of human history: have a boring job, marry, have kids, see the kids have boring jobs themselves, and die." Really? I'd say we have an easier time accomplishing this than a medieval peasant - if we wanted. I'd buy it if you told me people chose not to live this way - but i don't think it is any more difficult to live this way.
    - roninb 10y ago
      Are you arguing that poor people are that way by choice?
    - speeder 10y ago
      How you are supposed to have a boring job, if you can't find a job? In many countries youth unemployment (not occupation, but actual unemployment) is 10%+ sometimes it reaches 50%. How you can marry, if you have no money to do that, and the law is against you? (with harsh penalties for divorce, but at the same time divorce is easy and encouraged, making marriage inherently overly risky). How you can have kids, without money even to feed yourself? I know plenty, plenty, plenty people with 25+ of age, that don't own anything, no car, no house, not even a bike, how these people can even consider having kids? Who will take care of them? Orphanages? The state somehow?
      - nl 10y ago
        Youth unemployment is no higher now than it has been historically in most Western countries (eg: [1][2]). Across the whole Euro area youth unemployment is almost exactly what it was during the 1990's[3]. It's true that that rate was higher a few years ago though. It's pretty easy to be sucked into a "things are bad" narrative, but plenty of people get married at much worse poverty levels (especially historically). [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/youth-unemploy... [2] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/youth-unemplo... [3] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/youth-unemployment...
cryoshon 10y ago
what a terrifying yet accurate idea
tappio 10y ago
This. This whole article made me realize many things about why some of my friends made the choice to sit home, play games, and live on welfare benefits, instead of pursuing education and career. I guess this "strategy" allows them to reach all the human needs with minimal effort. Why would they do anything else, if that makes them happy? Even if it only makes them just enough happy to keep on going, its still an easier choice for them than a traditiotal career. The effort one needs to put on satisfying the needs through working are on a totally different scale. Very interesting.
- maqr 10y ago
  What country and how? I'm just asking for a friend...
  - tappio 10y ago
    Finland. You can get a cheap flat from the municipality(at least in the city of Espoo), then rent assistance from the state, and then you visit the welfare office (Kela) sometimes and tell that you are out of money, and they'll give you some. Id guess you have like 300e to spend per month for food, and you live in the outskirts of the city in a 20square meter flat, but hey, at least you can play your games as much as you want. Not the life id want, but some of my old friends with whom I still occasionally play games online have chosen that path. I've read that the number of young adults (mainly males) who are living outside the normal society is already as high as 30,000 in Finland, but I don't know for fact if they are all as extreme as some of the people I know.
    - Toine 10y ago
      Sound like 30,000 ticking time bombs...eventually they'll want more out of life.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

by jboggan 10y ago

frogfuzion 10y ago

I'd have to disagree. More and more constrained as compared to what time in history? Video games, and all the media choices available we have are a direct result of not being constrained. And supposing that we are playing more and more video games why is that sad?

crpatino 10y ago
> And supposing that we are playing more and more video games why is that sad? No more or less sad that some upperclass Victorian types reading more and more novels. Or even before that, some medieval upper clerics overindulging in rich foods. Doing it sparingly is good, - the well earned prize after a long day of hard work, perhaps. Doing it more is even better, - meaning you are actually successful at your more productive pursuits and can spare the time/resources to indulge. But doing it "more and more" implies an unhealthy detachment from both your responsibilities and all other goodies the rest of the world has to offer.
speeder 10y ago
I think when he referred to "authentic choice", to be about the choice of being normal and boring. Right now we have lots of choice, but not meaningful ones. For example: a medieval peasant was "fated" to die peasant, and do peasant things... Yet, that medieval peasant, had a great probability of being able to complete life cycle, of being born, be someone's apprentice, date, have fun and mess around, sometimes with lots of free time, work hard, marry, have kids, and eventually die. Right now there are millions of millenials, even ones already old enough to be grandparents if they were in medieval era, that can't have kids, can't have jobs that sustain themselves, and are forced to live with their parents. Is life more confortable, with TV, games, modern medicine, and truckloads of information? Sure yes, from that perspective life never been better, we are the apex of civilization. But is that truly important? When people have even a instinct that drives them to want to marry and have kids, what is the point of the future when all you can do is stay unemployed in your parents home and have only fleeting relationships? Is the modern amount of boatloads of sex with random stranger pleasurable? Yes, a lot. But... is it useful? Is it a choice that most of the population actually wants, even if they don't know in their 18s? We have now lots of choices, except the choice that was the default for most of human history: have a boring job, marry, have kids, see the kids have boring jobs themselves, and die. It wouldn't surprise me if the future got rid even of the "die" part, maybe when someone discover immortality they might make it mandatory, people would of course agree that being immortal is awesome and great... but that doesn't mean it would be actually better.
- frogfuzion 10y ago
  "We have now lots of choices, except the choice that was the default for most of human history: have a boring job, marry, have kids, see the kids have boring jobs themselves, and die." Really? I'd say we have an easier time accomplishing this than a medieval peasant - if we wanted. I'd buy it if you told me people chose not to live this way - but i don't think it is any more difficult to live this way.
  - roninb 10y ago
    Are you arguing that poor people are that way by choice?
  - speeder 10y ago
    How you are supposed to have a boring job, if you can't find a job? In many countries youth unemployment (not occupation, but actual unemployment) is 10%+ sometimes it reaches 50%. How you can marry, if you have no money to do that, and the law is against you? (with harsh penalties for divorce, but at the same time divorce is easy and encouraged, making marriage inherently overly risky). How you can have kids, without money even to feed yourself? I know plenty, plenty, plenty people with 25+ of age, that don't own anything, no car, no house, not even a bike, how these people can even consider having kids? Who will take care of them? Orphanages? The state somehow?
    - nl 10y ago
      Youth unemployment is no higher now than it has been historically in most Western countries (eg: [1][2]). Across the whole Euro area youth unemployment is almost exactly what it was during the 1990's[3]. It's true that that rate was higher a few years ago though. It's pretty easy to be sucked into a "things are bad" narrative, but plenty of people get married at much worse poverty levels (especially historically). [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/youth-unemploy... [2] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/youth-unemplo... [3] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/youth-unemployment-rate http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/youth-unemployment...

cryoshon 10y ago

what a terrifying yet accurate idea

tappio 10y ago

This. This whole article made me realize many things about why some of my friends made the choice to sit home, play games, and live on welfare benefits, instead of pursuing education and career. I guess this "strategy" allows them to reach all the human needs with minimal effort. Why would they do anything else, if that makes them happy? Even if it only makes them just enough happy to keep on going, its still an easier choice for them than a traditiotal career. The effort one needs to put on satisfying the needs through working are on a totally different scale. Very interesting.

maqr 10y ago
What country and how? I'm just asking for a friend...
- tappio 10y ago
  Finland. You can get a cheap flat from the municipality(at least in the city of Espoo), then rent assistance from the state, and then you visit the welfare office (Kela) sometimes and tell that you are out of money, and they'll give you some. Id guess you have like 300e to spend per month for food, and you live in the outskirts of the city in a 20square meter flat, but hey, at least you can play your games as much as you want. Not the life id want, but some of my old friends with whom I still occasionally play games online have chosen that path. I've read that the number of young adults (mainly males) who are living outside the normal society is already as high as 30,000 in Finland, but I don't know for fact if they are all as extreme as some of the people I know.
  - Toine 10y ago
    Sound like 30,000 ticking time bombs...eventually they'll want more out of life.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]