5 ms·

You've dug into the meaning of "rights" and I'm with you. No one has the "right" to use Facebook. But, you lose me when you don't draw the connection to "privil

You've dug into the meaning of "rights" and I'm with you. No one has the "right" to use Facebook. But, you lose me when you don't draw the connection to "privilege." While I don't have the "right" to use Facebook I have the "privilege" of using it, and at no point feeling unwelcome or un-catered to. That feeling comes not because of my merit or choices, but because I'm a "check all the boxes" white dude.

dagenleg 10y ago
Oh dear. Is there any corner of the world safe from you privilege hunting types? It's funny how all your activism starts and ends with feelings and what you feel. The sad thing about your self-flagellation is that you forget that people outside of the West (the majority of the world population, by the way) do no really care about the "privileges" that you so righteously seek out behind every corner. They care about very tangible things, like having shelter, food, access to healthcare and proper education. What you are doing is catering to a very small although quite vocal section of population that likes to get offended and talk about feeling. There are other, more rewarding ways to do good.
- lostphilosopher 10y ago
  Commenting on social media is a far cry from activism, but it's an adequate form of dialog. How do you propose I make the argument, "I think I've got some unearned advantages" without being written of as virtue signalling or what have you? And "self-flagellation"? Really? By my reckoning I won the 'veil of ignorance' lottery. I won't apologize for that or feel bad about it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hide from reality. Your point about "people outside the West" seems like further evidence of exactly my point. How lucky was it that I was born where I don't have to worry about my basic needs? Isn't a reasonable response to that luck to look for ways to back up people who didn't get the "be born a white dude in the US" memo? Maybe support some charities, try to see things from uncomfortable perspectives, do some civic duties, maybe chime in on a post or two to acknowledge that people who think that social media isn't always friendly to them aren't crazy, and as a consumer I'd prefer it if products would treat them better? (See! I was getting back to the topic!) Have I really gone off the "SJW" deep end? If you think I have feel free to add trigger warnings to your posts, maybe it will cushion the blow... ;-)
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  I think this idea that the concept of privilege only exists in the West is a disservice to the struggle of activists around the world. There are professors in Japan discussing Japans racism and xenophobia, and privilege structures unique to their culture. There are discussions in South Africa over how apartheid has affected the culture there and structures of privilege and racism there. China's literary scene has exploded in examining structures of privilege along class lines[1]. There are activists internationally examining and discussing how privilege and systems of oppression affect their individual cultures. It would make sense that a primarily English-speaking site would explore privilege in context of English-speaking cultures, usually described as "western". This may look like there is no discussion outside of "western" spheres when this is incorrect. This is the kind of not-realizing-the-greater-context in which I believe privilege thrives in. [1]'Folding Beijing' by Hao Jingfang, translated by Ken Liu, and winner for Hugo 2016 Best Novelette http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/ http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/
  - dagenleg 10y ago
    I do still think that you are comparing apples and oranges here. Racism, xenophobia and apartheid are things that exist on totally different level from "subtle privilege of having western-sounding name on facebook" or other perceived micro-oppressions. I am not saying that "privilege" is a thing that exists and is discussed only in the west, rather I am saying that the things that do exist in the west are not worth the amount of attention they are getting.
    - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
      Actually, many of these discussions also look into microaggressions. Consider when a half-Brazilian woman earned miss Japan. There was discussion on what mucroaggressions she faced in the media and in her childhood such as pointing out how she may not he truly Japanese due to her ancestry and implications that she doesn't deserve awards. Facebook in a way of managing who is discerned to have a real name and excluding people from different cultures because the way they identify themselves are unacceptable is part of a larger problem in when identities are questioned purely for not fitting into the majority or "white" ideal of what is considered an acceptable identity, and demanding those who have unacceptable identities to change to fit the "white" ideal in order to participate in a significant social media platform.

dagenleg 10y ago

Oh dear. Is there any corner of the world safe from you privilege hunting types? It's funny how all your activism starts and ends with feelings and what you feel. The sad thing about your self-flagellation is that you forget that people outside of the West (the majority of the world population, by the way) do no really care about the "privileges" that you so righteously seek out behind every corner. They care about very tangible things, like having shelter, food, access to healthcare and proper education. What you are doing is catering to a very small although quite vocal section of population that likes to get offended and talk about feeling. There are other, more rewarding ways to do good.

lostphilosopher 10y ago
Commenting on social media is a far cry from activism, but it's an adequate form of dialog. How do you propose I make the argument, "I think I've got some unearned advantages" without being written of as virtue signalling or what have you? And "self-flagellation"? Really? By my reckoning I won the 'veil of ignorance' lottery. I won't apologize for that or feel bad about it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hide from reality. Your point about "people outside the West" seems like further evidence of exactly my point. How lucky was it that I was born where I don't have to worry about my basic needs? Isn't a reasonable response to that luck to look for ways to back up people who didn't get the "be born a white dude in the US" memo? Maybe support some charities, try to see things from uncomfortable perspectives, do some civic duties, maybe chime in on a post or two to acknowledge that people who think that social media isn't always friendly to them aren't crazy, and as a consumer I'd prefer it if products would treat them better? (See! I was getting back to the topic!) Have I really gone off the "SJW" deep end? If you think I have feel free to add trigger warnings to your posts, maybe it will cushion the blow... ;-)
SolaceQuantum 10y ago
I think this idea that the concept of privilege only exists in the West is a disservice to the struggle of activists around the world. There are professors in Japan discussing Japans racism and xenophobia, and privilege structures unique to their culture. There are discussions in South Africa over how apartheid has affected the culture there and structures of privilege and racism there. China's literary scene has exploded in examining structures of privilege along class lines[1]. There are activists internationally examining and discussing how privilege and systems of oppression affect their individual cultures. It would make sense that a primarily English-speaking site would explore privilege in context of English-speaking cultures, usually described as "western". This may look like there is no discussion outside of "western" spheres when this is incorrect. This is the kind of not-realizing-the-greater-context in which I believe privilege thrives in. [1]'Folding Beijing' by Hao Jingfang, translated by Ken Liu, and winner for Hugo 2016 Best Novelette http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/ http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/
- dagenleg 10y ago
  I do still think that you are comparing apples and oranges here. Racism, xenophobia and apartheid are things that exist on totally different level from "subtle privilege of having western-sounding name on facebook" or other perceived micro-oppressions. I am not saying that "privilege" is a thing that exists and is discussed only in the west, rather I am saying that the things that do exist in the west are not worth the amount of attention they are getting.
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    Actually, many of these discussions also look into microaggressions. Consider when a half-Brazilian woman earned miss Japan. There was discussion on what mucroaggressions she faced in the media and in her childhood such as pointing out how she may not he truly Japanese due to her ancestry and implications that she doesn't deserve awards. Facebook in a way of managing who is discerned to have a real name and excluding people from different cultures because the way they identify themselves are unacceptable is part of a larger problem in when identities are questioned purely for not fitting into the majority or "white" ideal of what is considered an acceptable identity, and demanding those who have unacceptable identities to change to fit the "white" ideal in order to participate in a significant social media platform.