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> 963 people have been shot and killed by police in 2016 And please outline every one of those situations. Because those are just numbers, nothing else. - How

> 963 people have been shot and killed by police in 2016 And please outline every one of those situations. Because those are just numbers, nothing else. - How many of those were suspects who threatened a cop with a gun or some other weapon? - How many of those were a suspect was assaulting a cop and he drew his weapon to save his own life? - How many of those where a suspect refused the orders of the cops to put down a dangerous weapon and surrender? In fact, all you have is numbers. Without any context, those numbers are useless. By comparison, in Chicago this year, there were 762 homicides. That's ONE CITY which nearly equals the entire country's worth of people being killed by police in the same time frame.

moomin 10y ago
An important distinction: many of those who killed someone in Chicago ended up in jail. Mike Brown's, Eric Garner's and Tamir Rice's killers are all walking free. There's some context for you, but I'm guessing that's not what you were after.
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  I'm not saying that cops were in the right in every one of those situations. It just means there's no context in a majority of those incidents - which is critical to determine if the cop was justified in what he did. Likewise, the context is critical for each of the examples you listed. . . Mike Brown - So much evidence that contradicted the whole "hand up, don't shoot" narrative: In summary, the DOJ report concluded: There are no witnesses who could testify credibly that Wilson shot Brown while Brown was clearly attempting to surrender. The accounts of the witnesses who have claimed that Brown raised his hands above his head to surrender and said “I don’t have a gun,” or “OK, OK, OK” are inconsistent with the physical evidence.” http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/why-did-justice-department-conclude-hands-dont-shoot-was-myth#stream/0 http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/why-did-justice-departme... The whole incident took place after Brown had just committed a strong arm robbery and assaulted the owner of a shop. There's a mountain of evidence that proves officer Wilson was well within his rights to shoot Brown but I won't go down that rabbit hole at this point. Eric Garner - I would agree the cops acted callously in arresting Garner. That should have been a standard arrest. Take him to the ground, cuff him and put in the car. The cops were wrong in this scenario, and should have done a better job of simply cuffing Garner and getting him in the car - especially when he kept saying he couldn't breathe. There is however, still some responsibility on Garner's part that he resisted arrest in the first place, which then resulted in the officers putting him in the choke hold that eventually killed him. Had he simply allowed the officers to arrest him without incident, he'd probably still be alive today. Tamir Rice - This was an egregious act on the cops part. Not only did the callers mention that the gun was probably fake, the dispatcher didn't rely that to the cops who showed up. The cop also acted way too fast in drawing his gun and shooting Tamir immediately without hesitation or warning. A $6 million settlement probably confirms this was the case. Not to mention the officer in question had also been deemed "unsuitable and emotionally unstable" in his last position in a different county and shouldn't even been allowed to be a cop again.
daveFNbuck 10y ago
There are about 3 times as many people living in Chicago as there are police officers in the United States. So all your Chicago stat tells us is that police officers are much more likely to kill people than the average citizen in Chicago.
polymatter 10y ago
An excellent point that context matters a lot. Have you seen the Guardians 'The Counted' database of people killed by police? You can click and read a synopsis of each death (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...). According to that 811 people were shot and killed by police in 2016 who had a weapon. So a significant % of those killed did indeed have a weapon. I clicked on a few stories of unarmed people shot and killed by police and in some cases it seems obviously justified eg they were driving a vehicle as a weapon or attacked an officer reaching for the officers weapon. In other cases its less so, eg man killed on 12 December after neighbours mistook his crucifix for a gun or 22 November where a teenager was shot in the back for running from the police or 16 September where a mans car broke down in the road and was shot by police despite clearly complying with instructions.

moomin 10y ago

An important distinction: many of those who killed someone in Chicago ended up in jail. Mike Brown's, Eric Garner's and Tamir Rice's killers are all walking free. There's some context for you, but I'm guessing that's not what you were after.

at-fates-hands 10y ago
I'm not saying that cops were in the right in every one of those situations. It just means there's no context in a majority of those incidents - which is critical to determine if the cop was justified in what he did. Likewise, the context is critical for each of the examples you listed. . . Mike Brown - So much evidence that contradicted the whole "hand up, don't shoot" narrative: In summary, the DOJ report concluded: There are no witnesses who could testify credibly that Wilson shot Brown while Brown was clearly attempting to surrender. The accounts of the witnesses who have claimed that Brown raised his hands above his head to surrender and said “I don’t have a gun,” or “OK, OK, OK” are inconsistent with the physical evidence.” http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/why-did-justice-department-conclude-hands-dont-shoot-was-myth#stream/0 http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/why-did-justice-departme... The whole incident took place after Brown had just committed a strong arm robbery and assaulted the owner of a shop. There's a mountain of evidence that proves officer Wilson was well within his rights to shoot Brown but I won't go down that rabbit hole at this point. Eric Garner - I would agree the cops acted callously in arresting Garner. That should have been a standard arrest. Take him to the ground, cuff him and put in the car. The cops were wrong in this scenario, and should have done a better job of simply cuffing Garner and getting him in the car - especially when he kept saying he couldn't breathe. There is however, still some responsibility on Garner's part that he resisted arrest in the first place, which then resulted in the officers putting him in the choke hold that eventually killed him. Had he simply allowed the officers to arrest him without incident, he'd probably still be alive today. Tamir Rice - This was an egregious act on the cops part. Not only did the callers mention that the gun was probably fake, the dispatcher didn't rely that to the cops who showed up. The cop also acted way too fast in drawing his gun and shooting Tamir immediately without hesitation or warning. A $6 million settlement probably confirms this was the case. Not to mention the officer in question had also been deemed "unsuitable and emotionally unstable" in his last position in a different county and shouldn't even been allowed to be a cop again.

daveFNbuck 10y ago

There are about 3 times as many people living in Chicago as there are police officers in the United States. So all your Chicago stat tells us is that police officers are much more likely to kill people than the average citizen in Chicago.

polymatter 10y ago

An excellent point that context matters a lot. Have you seen the Guardians 'The Counted' database of people killed by police? You can click and read a synopsis of each death (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...). According to that 811 people were shot and killed by police in 2016 who had a weapon. So a significant % of those killed did indeed have a weapon. I clicked on a few stories of unarmed people shot and killed by police and in some cases it seems obviously justified eg they were driving a vehicle as a weapon or attacked an officer reaching for the officers weapon. In other cases its less so, eg man killed on 12 December after neighbours mistook his crucifix for a gun or 22 November where a teenager was shot in the back for running from the police or 16 September where a mans car broke down in the road and was shot by police despite clearly complying with instructions.