5 ms·

This has been linked to a few times on HN. http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ A quick summary: pay has gone up enough a

by geebee 10y ago

This has been linked to a few times on HN. http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ http://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ A quick summary: pay has gone up enough at top bigcos that simply working and accumulating money can exceed even very good outcomes at startups.

edoceo 10y ago
10 years at MS will make you a millionaire - in liquid assets 3 years at my startup now I have a million - on paper. Hopefully in the next three there is an event I can cash out on. One path is 99% chance One path is a 1% chance I'm having more fun at the startup than I did at MS
- gumby 10y ago
  > I'm having more fun at the startup than I did at MS And as long as you can make your nut (housing, food, savings, some vacations) I don't see a problem. (edoceo I know you weren't claiming a problem -- I just wanted to reinforce your point).
  - edoceo 10y ago
    This is a critical point I didn't address. If the startup business is profitable and employees and founders can take reasonable salary it is sweet. If no profits but you have outside funding for growth it's also pretty sweet. When it doesn't work, no profits, lagging growth it's terrible. Really terrible. Major stress, so much waste. And the sad fact is that's the likely outcome of startup world. You have to have two plans. One for the Best and one for the complete shit-storm of winding down a business.
- beagle3 10y ago
  To be a millionaire after 10 years you need to save $100K/year - which means you need at least $150K post taxes (assuming you are without children and super frugal) - so ~$200K-$250K salary. Not impossible - but definitely far from common for MS employees unless I'm hopelessly misinformed.
  - edoceo 10y ago
    MS means Microsoft (but it's true at other BigCo). Total annual compensation - including bonus and options can clear $300k USD for employees in the Seattle region. Source: a dozen folks I've spoken to directly where the case is true.
    - beagle3 10y ago
      I have no doubt it's true, I just wonder what percentage of MS employees, e.g. in the Seattle region, this applies to.
    - geebee 10y ago
      Oh, I don't doubt that at all. Are those standard "senior dev" salaries, though? What's interesting to me about the startup-tradeoffs article (top link of this thread), though, is that you don't need to enter stratospheric levels of career advancement to hit these targets at bigco's anymore. You can't be a lousy dev, but you don't have to be an amazing one or ascend into higher management levels. $250k a year is now a reachable salary for an employee of ordinary advancement (well, a SE or related). You get to senior level, and top out there, and your salary is now high enough that earnings start to rival very good exits from startup. No, not founder level or huge (and rare) IPO successes - those are still out of reach on the "work at a bigco and accumulate". But better than being an early employee at a startup that has a decent buyout or "exit".
user5994461 10y ago
And remember to factor things such as pension, healthcare, working hours. Forget about free food for a minute and you may soon realize that startups are terrible all over the board.

by geebee 10y ago

edoceo 10y ago

10 years at MS will make you a millionaire - in liquid assets 3 years at my startup now I have a million - on paper. Hopefully in the next three there is an event I can cash out on. One path is 99% chance One path is a 1% chance I'm having more fun at the startup than I did at MS

gumby 10y ago
> I'm having more fun at the startup than I did at MS And as long as you can make your nut (housing, food, savings, some vacations) I don't see a problem. (edoceo I know you weren't claiming a problem -- I just wanted to reinforce your point).
- edoceo 10y ago
  This is a critical point I didn't address. If the startup business is profitable and employees and founders can take reasonable salary it is sweet. If no profits but you have outside funding for growth it's also pretty sweet. When it doesn't work, no profits, lagging growth it's terrible. Really terrible. Major stress, so much waste. And the sad fact is that's the likely outcome of startup world. You have to have two plans. One for the Best and one for the complete shit-storm of winding down a business.
beagle3 10y ago
To be a millionaire after 10 years you need to save $100K/year - which means you need at least $150K post taxes (assuming you are without children and super frugal) - so ~$200K-$250K salary. Not impossible - but definitely far from common for MS employees unless I'm hopelessly misinformed.
- edoceo 10y ago
  MS means Microsoft (but it's true at other BigCo). Total annual compensation - including bonus and options can clear $300k USD for employees in the Seattle region. Source: a dozen folks I've spoken to directly where the case is true.
  - beagle3 10y ago
    I have no doubt it's true, I just wonder what percentage of MS employees, e.g. in the Seattle region, this applies to.
  - geebee 10y ago
    Oh, I don't doubt that at all. Are those standard "senior dev" salaries, though? What's interesting to me about the startup-tradeoffs article (top link of this thread), though, is that you don't need to enter stratospheric levels of career advancement to hit these targets at bigco's anymore. You can't be a lousy dev, but you don't have to be an amazing one or ascend into higher management levels. $250k a year is now a reachable salary for an employee of ordinary advancement (well, a SE or related). You get to senior level, and top out there, and your salary is now high enough that earnings start to rival very good exits from startup. No, not founder level or huge (and rare) IPO successes - those are still out of reach on the "work at a bigco and accumulate". But better than being an early employee at a startup that has a decent buyout or "exit".

user5994461 10y ago

And remember to factor things such as pension, healthcare, working hours. Forget about free food for a minute and you may soon realize that startups are terrible all over the board.