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Using a "generic" laptop whose origin is not exactly easy to track (it bears the brand of the distributor, not of the maker). I installed ubuntu (LTS) with the

Using a "generic" laptop whose origin is not exactly easy to track (it bears the brand of the distributor, not of the maker). I installed ubuntu (LTS) with the proprietary (yuck) Wifi drivers. So far: * The trackpad works. I use a mouse anyway. * Networking didn't randomly break so far. * Don't care about "unified". Apart from a suspension bug, it works. * The battery lasts for 6-7 hours of programming. * Text rendering is pretty. * Xmonad + LXDE is pleasing and their interface make sense —to me at least. It took a little tinkering around fixing bullshit. The lingering suspension bug prevents me to log back in if I close the lid when logged out. On the other hand I can stay the hell away from Apple and their shiny locked down empire.

idm 10y ago
The fact we're still discussing the trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, and UI - in 2017 - means the problem still isn't solved on Linux. I gave a decade over to that quest (1996-2006) and then spent the next decade using MBPs. With a macbook pro, I have never once wondered about my trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, UI, or a host of other things like printers, scanners, USB, bluetooth, or external displays. That level of compatibility is a miracle, from the perspective of a daily Linux user. I have used my laptop for heavy computation, software dev, academic work, major presentations, video and multimedia, casual browsing, gaming, etc, and it has NEVER given me trouble due to compatibility. Having spent way too much of my life thinking about those problems on Linux, you have no idea how liberating it is to be free of those concerns. I get OCD about using a specific brand of disposable pen, so you'd better believe I think about the most important tool in my life: my laptop. The MBP is too good to accept any alternative. The 2016 was underwhelming, but it's still the best laptop/OS combination out there. It costs too much for the market and it's not enough-better to justify the upgrade, but dammit there's nothing that even compares. I've been thinking hard about alternatives to the MBP during the past few months, and my decision is that I can't give all this up and still be a functioning academic and entrepreneur. I'll pay the $1000 premium and if I value my time at $25/hour, I'll recover that additional cost within 2 months compared to Linux maintenance. I wish it weren't so, but the maths don't lie.
- Frondo 10y ago
  As a counterpoint, I've been a daily Mageia linux user since 2011, and Mandriva since 2009. I've had that "just works" experience for both of them, on a variety of cheap laptops, pretty much from the start. Whatever they do to detect hardware, it works. I wouldn't even remember how to hand-edit a config file anymore, seriously. That knowledge is gone.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    Good for you. The fact that so many don't have that experience means it's still a problem.
- loup-vaillant 10y ago
  > The fact we're still discussing the trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, and UI - in 2017 - means the problem still isn't solved on Linux. One reason is, it's not Linux's problem to solve. It's the hardware vendor's. Those morons still don't ship with proper drivers, firmware, or even specs —possibly because spending a single cent on Linux isn't economically viable or something. Last time I checked, suspend and power management does work flawlessly on Linux… when the hardware is a couple year's old. But it will never work properly on new hardware unless the vendors make it so themselves. On the other hand, Wifi hardware vendors now often ship with proprietary drivers. Proprietary sucks, but it at least works. > I'll pay the $1000 premium and if I value my time at $25/hour, I'll recover that additional cost within 2 months compared to Linux maintenance. I wish it weren't so, but the maths don't lie. Let's be generous and assume MacOS requires zero maintenance. 1000/25 means 40 hours (a full work-week), of Linux maintenance. A full work-week in only 2 months, aren't you being a tiny bit hyperbolic? I spend a few minutes per month in maintenance.
  - idm 10y ago
    Think of it like this: 8 weeks, 5 days per week, 1 hour per day. That's 40 hours. I spend more than a few minutes a month administering my MBP, so I have no idea how you get along doing so little for a Linux machine. In fact, I spend more than a few minutes a month administering my Linux servers... I honestly think my 1-hour-per-day estimate is in the ballpark and your experience sounds unlike mine.
antihero 10y ago
Ah, forgot suspend/wake. I've literally never ever been able to get something remotely dependable with suspend/wake working with Linux. Like, it will work 90% of the time then you open it up and it just...wont.
nottorp 10y ago
For some reason, Apple laptops are the only ones usable without a mouse. The trackpad simply sucks on anything else I've tried. Just like people are used to OSes that crash all the time, they're used to unusable trackpads. Sad.

idm 10y ago

The fact we're still discussing the trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, and UI - in 2017 - means the problem still isn't solved on Linux. I gave a decade over to that quest (1996-2006) and then spent the next decade using MBPs. With a macbook pro, I have never once wondered about my trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, UI, or a host of other things like printers, scanners, USB, bluetooth, or external displays. That level of compatibility is a miracle, from the perspective of a daily Linux user. I have used my laptop for heavy computation, software dev, academic work, major presentations, video and multimedia, casual browsing, gaming, etc, and it has NEVER given me trouble due to compatibility. Having spent way too much of my life thinking about those problems on Linux, you have no idea how liberating it is to be free of those concerns. I get OCD about using a specific brand of disposable pen, so you'd better believe I think about the most important tool in my life: my laptop. The MBP is too good to accept any alternative. The 2016 was underwhelming, but it's still the best laptop/OS combination out there. It costs too much for the market and it's not enough-better to justify the upgrade, but dammit there's nothing that even compares. I've been thinking hard about alternatives to the MBP during the past few months, and my decision is that I can't give all this up and still be a functioning academic and entrepreneur. I'll pay the $1000 premium and if I value my time at $25/hour, I'll recover that additional cost within 2 months compared to Linux maintenance. I wish it weren't so, but the maths don't lie.

Frondo 10y ago
As a counterpoint, I've been a daily Mageia linux user since 2011, and Mandriva since 2009. I've had that "just works" experience for both of them, on a variety of cheap laptops, pretty much from the start. Whatever they do to detect hardware, it works. I wouldn't even remember how to hand-edit a config file anymore, seriously. That knowledge is gone.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Good for you. The fact that so many don't have that experience means it's still a problem.
loup-vaillant 10y ago
> The fact we're still discussing the trackpad, suspend/wake, fonts, networking, and UI - in 2017 - means the problem still isn't solved on Linux. One reason is, it's not Linux's problem to solve. It's the hardware vendor's. Those morons still don't ship with proper drivers, firmware, or even specs —possibly because spending a single cent on Linux isn't economically viable or something. Last time I checked, suspend and power management does work flawlessly on Linux… when the hardware is a couple year's old. But it will never work properly on new hardware unless the vendors make it so themselves. On the other hand, Wifi hardware vendors now often ship with proprietary drivers. Proprietary sucks, but it at least works. > I'll pay the $1000 premium and if I value my time at $25/hour, I'll recover that additional cost within 2 months compared to Linux maintenance. I wish it weren't so, but the maths don't lie. Let's be generous and assume MacOS requires zero maintenance. 1000/25 means 40 hours (a full work-week), of Linux maintenance. A full work-week in only 2 months, aren't you being a tiny bit hyperbolic? I spend a few minutes per month in maintenance.
- idm 10y ago
  Think of it like this: 8 weeks, 5 days per week, 1 hour per day. That's 40 hours. I spend more than a few minutes a month administering my MBP, so I have no idea how you get along doing so little for a Linux machine. In fact, I spend more than a few minutes a month administering my Linux servers... I honestly think my 1-hour-per-day estimate is in the ballpark and your experience sounds unlike mine.

antihero 10y ago

Ah, forgot suspend/wake. I've literally never ever been able to get something remotely dependable with suspend/wake working with Linux. Like, it will work 90% of the time then you open it up and it just...wont.

nottorp 10y ago

For some reason, Apple laptops are the only ones usable without a mouse. The trackpad simply sucks on anything else I've tried. Just like people are used to OSes that crash all the time, they're used to unusable trackpads. Sad.