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Come on, this piece is junk. He says people are switching to Linux because Apple hardware sucks. These rants are typical but would be much better if people iden

Come on, this piece is junk. He says people are switching to Linux because Apple hardware sucks. These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. So I looked for that here, and it turns out he is still using Apple hardware. He then does not identify a single OS X flaw or a reason he loaded Linux onto his Apple hardware. Maybe what HN needs is a periodic "Apple Sucks, post your rants here" posting, just like the periodic "who's hiring" posts, because it's clear that "Apple Sucks" is the only reason for all these posts that completely lack any interesting content.

TulliusCicero 10y ago
It used to be that Apple was pretty dominant in creating decent laptop hardware, but these days machines like the XPS 13 and Spectre are very competitive. When we replace my wife's 2012 MacBook Air I think we'll probably get a Windows machine, the latest MacBook refresh was pretty disappointing.
nemacol 10y ago
I agree. This article is basically click bate for people that are not fans of apple (me). It never answer the question posed by the title. The author has not even switched off of Apple totally... but predicts that they will when funds are available.
- kls 10y ago
  The big three for me where: The discontinuation of the 17 inch MacBook Pro The soldered in ram. And the final one was with the last refresh where they held the top of the line model at 16GB of ram. As a note these where probably all sound business decisions they just chip away at my ideal machine. Which is a large screen machine, with a lot of horse power so that I can simulate an entire network environment locally to eliminate variables as well as use in a disconnected environment.
  - BatFastard 10y ago
    Interesting that the iPhone offers 128GB option, but the top end for laptops is 16GB. Why would Apple want to drive developers away?
    - anderiv 10y ago
      RAM vs. Flash storage. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
      - jacobush 10y ago
        Actually Apples vs Apples
    - 7Z7 10y ago
      You've misunderstood. One is RAM, one is storage.
    - kls 10y ago
      I don't think they want to drive developers away, I think that the removal of the 17 inch MBP from their line was a sound business decision the only market left for them are intense gamer who are on the go (i.e 17-20 somethings in school) and developers. The MBP has never been seen as a first class game system so they where never really competitive there and developers are a small subset of the computing market and not all of them prefer a large monitor. Soldered in ram was a decision to reduce the overall size of the MBP to make it thinner. Again this probably appeals to the large consumer market. I don't know the reasoning for not moving the line up to at least 32GB of ram but I would assume their cost to produce to market segment came to a higher profit calculation by not doing it, maybe it offset the cost of the touch bar but that is speculation but I assume they had their reasons. I don't think it is an intentional effort to drive developers away, rather calculated attempt to chase the largest market segment.
    - robotresearcher 10y ago
      For reference the top end in flash storage for the MBPro is current 2TB. That's 16X the iPhone's max 128GB.
linkmotif 10y ago
> These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. So I looked for that here, and it turns out he is still using Apple hardware. Yeah, this stuff is really tiresome. What a bandwagon people have going now.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Remember back in 2015 when it was cool to be anti-Microsoft on HN? Somewhere in 2016, maybe after WWDC, suddenly the Surface was in and Apple was out. The consensus changed almost overnight, anyone using Apple wasn't a hacker anymore. Either you're on Windows wishing you were using Linux, or you're on macOS wishing you were on Windows wishing you were using Linux. And god forbid you buy any new Apple hardware, you dirty shill. Facebook machine, not a professional, MacBook Pro Air and all that.
  - RUG3Y 10y ago
    I think people like to support the "underdog". Whatever is popular will inevitably have people that rebel against that popularity. Maybe it's a bit of the hipster attitude. I use a MBP for work, and while the build quality is great, I find the machine itself to be...meh. My older one had more ports, some that I used often and still miss. I would never have a new Mac for that very reason. The OS is decent, usable certainly, but I really would rather be using Linux. I don't have any very strong opinions though. I'd be fine with any machine with a unixy OS on it. I think very strong, hardline opinions on this kind of stuff can sometimes betray immaturity. The world is rarely "black and white".
    - linkmotif 10y ago
      Yeah. Amen. I've not seen a single PC with the Apple build quality. Combine that with Apple Stores providing excellent, best in industry support for a good price: I'd love to go Linux, but someone needs to build a good Linux notebook with Apple grade support for that to happen. I have no time for tinkering or downtime.
  - zeveb 10y ago
jlg23 10y ago
> These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. As someone who's never bought Apple HW (but used it, when paid for by employers, as secondary devices): There is no "glorious" PC hardware anymore (though, the top-of-the-line thinkpads from about 2000 were amazing (a20p, anyone?). But today, compared to Apple's pricing, they are so cheap that I can get equivalent HW for half the price (equivalent wrt performance, not manufacturing quality!). I can have it serviced around the world without having to find a vendor-specific shop. And if it really is FUBAR, I can invest the 50% I saved on the initial purchase and get a brand new, next generation PC.
- lmm 10y ago
  I've got a Surface Book and it's glorious.
- Chathamization 10y ago
  > But today, compared to Apple's pricing, they are so cheap that I can get equivalent HW for half the price (equivalent wrt performance, not manufacturing quality!). How true is this? For instance, I often see the XPS brought up as an alternative to the MPB, but whenever I look into it, it seems like the price is comparable for similar hardware configurations.[1] [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-vs-dell-xps-13-apple-macbook-dell-xps-13/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-...
  - nsxwolf 10y ago
    It's only true if you focus on one or two features or specs and ignore everything else. When people make that claim they usually find something with the same CPU and amount of memory and use it as a comp.
    - jlg23 10y ago
      Of course. But considering things I do not consider essential is like saying "yes" to "you save $1 when buying 5 apples, we charge for 4" when you only wanted one in the first place. The OP wrote about the specific "sw dev" group, not the average user. (e.g.: If I could downgrade the resolution of the displays for a significant discount, apple hw would be much more tempting to me - after all, 99% of the time I spend on computers I look at monospace fonts in emacs...)
jclardy 10y ago
I took a look into linux recently, as a Mac user for the past 10 years. Ended up buying a Chromebook to mess around with it and it is pretty nice, but desktop linux is still missing so much software that I use regularly in macOS. Also, finding suitable notebook hardware to run linux on is still a nightmare unless you enjoy spending time debugging the device that is supposed to improve your productivity. All the unique hardware is missing drivers (SP4, surface book) and things like touch screens and wifi drivers across more "normal" hardware is still finicky. My main gig is iOS dev, so I obviously can't completely swap, but there just isn't any comparable hardware out there that can just run ubuntu out of the box (minus some exceptions like that dell developer edition xps.)
- jeena 10y ago
  Could you make a (short) list of the apps (for devs?) missing so we could help you perhaps to find alternatives if there are any?
- igor_filippov 10y ago
  Many articles about people switching from Mac to Linux laptop begin this way: "It's great, but my laptop can't handle sleep mode properly, network stops working from time to time...etc etc But I'm very happy!".
  - oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
    I have a mid-2014 13" retina MBP and it has its fair share of problems, namely: * Screen coating wearing off and leaving horrible marks behind (I now use it plugged into a monitor more often than not) * Inputs (trackpad and keyboard) occasionally lock up, usually when unplugging external keyboard/mouse. Closing and opening the lid sometimes fixes this, toggling bluetooth or plugging/unplugging keyboard also sometimes fix; failing that I have to power-cycle using the keyboard power button (the only button that seems to still respond) * Wifi connection has all sorts of problems - access hangs for ~30 seconds every couple of minutes or so. This is very intermittent, and seems to be a problem with our home connection, but other devices don't appear to suffer. I mainly bring this up because the latter two pretty much match your examples of linux complaints - Apple machines are far from perfect!
kls 10y ago
The issue may not be the current hardware he is on, but rather Apple has put their (developer machine) future in doubt by releasing lackluster upgrades to their MacBook Pro line and neglecting it's Mac Pro line for a long time. Thus signaling that they may not be the best option for development longevity. I know it's a decision point of mine, as after the last MacBook Pro release, I decided that my next hardware refresh will most likely be a PC based laptop running one of the BSD's. I was really hoping for a 32 GB ram option. With my need for virtualization and needing to run other machines 16 is getting a little light. I was really disheartened when they went to the soldered ram as it constrains one to the max ram offered via Apple. I just cannot justify buying another 16gb laptop so it's kind of the straw that broke the camels back for me. It is apparent to most that they are moving away from the needs of the developer (in relation to hardware) and many of us don't want to be further constrained by those decisions. I have no ill will towards Apple, just stating my reasoning. They made a business decision and I don't factor into that decision as the best course of action. I therefore have to make the best business decision for myself and factor in how I adjust. It sucks, I like Apple products and will miss OSX but the lack of some hardware capabilities in now outweighing the benefits of the OS. My next machine will most likely be a Sager Laptop running a BSD.
- illumin8 10y ago
  He says he switched from OS X to Linux years ago, which I assume is long before 2013 when the trashcan Mac Pro was released. This article is garbage. If he likes Linux, that's fine, but don't pretend that Apple's actions in 2016 caused him to travel back in time years ago and switch to Linux...
  - bhaak 10y ago
    That's not what he's saying. He's saying "developers are switching from OSX to Linux, here are some links for the interested, I did it years ago and I'm really satisfied". The article doesn't even mention what his reasons were for switching.
igor_filippov 10y ago
It's the same people who participate in various "challenges" and play Pokemon Go claiming that it's good for your health. Many people just need some hoaxes to consume their free time.
bsaunder 10y ago
Apple hardware does suck (now) AND its over priced. The OS and apps are starting to suck too (IMHO). I switched a month ago from MBP. I commented elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13318525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13318525) on this thread with more details and my reasons and new hardware specs.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
CoolGuySteve 10y ago
10 years ago, there was no PC hardware that even came close the weight, dimensions, and build quality of the MacBook Air. Nowadays, PC "ultrabooks" like the XPS13 and UX305 are similar in size and build quality but come in a variety of configurations with better battery life and a choice between low power low res screens and high power high res screens. And they're significantly cheaper. Linux works perfectly on the Intel chipsets these computers use as well with open source drivers from Intel themselves. I haven't had any problems with Ubuntu, my install is pretty much stock Unity. I used to work for Apple and still have Apple stock. As a stock holder, I think they need to make a similar leap with their computers as they did back with the MacBook Air. The two things I would most want from them are a 40" curved screen iMac and and a MacPro replacement that looks something like the Razor Blade Stealth where a full powered GPU attaches via USB-C. I mention these 2 designs because they require a lot of tinkering to get working on the PC side and while Apple doesn't really make anything new, they do polish existing technology extremely well.
- thebspatrol 10y ago
  The build quality still usually is a narrow miss. Namely, non-apple manufacturers LOVE to cut corners by using plastic on the bottom or more fragmented case design. Touchpads are always iffy too. Does anyone know of any non-apple machines that truly are at parity in build quality? The new Thinkpad X1 looks nice.
  - cube2222 10y ago
    Surface Pro 4 / Surface Book, their build quality is amazing. (actually better than Mac's probably)
    - duncanawoods 10y ago
      Is Surface Pro 4 build quality amazing? Don't they have those keyboard cover things that are encased in a vinyl. How is that comparable to an aluminium unibody? The surface book is closer - I like its features/specs but still find it very ugly - I can't get over that huge gappy hinge. I want to like MS products but they are not the quality I want yet. Surface Studio really turned my head though.
LyndsySimon 10y ago
I... agree. Many of the recent articles that have been posted about Apple's new Macbook Pro line have been very low-quality compared to the rest of HN. The comments here provide an order of magnitude more value than the articles themselves. They're more or less serving as a "discuss this currently controversial topic" thread; the articles are irrelevant. While I think they could be easily replaced with a new feature in HN itself, the current solution is working. I'm OK with the article spam.
danjoc 10y ago
>These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. Razer makes really nice hardware. Visit a Microsoft store or Fry's electronics to see some in person. Aluminum build, current generation CPUs and GPUs. NVidia GPUs not the garbage Apple ships. 32GB RAM and RAID 0 available on the Pro. Hands down superior hardware. Good value for the money. >He then does not identify a single OS X flaw or a reason he loaded Linux onto his Apple hardware. I can easily install developer software on Linux that is blocked by Gatekeeper and SIP on Mac OS X. Every time I update, I have to delete /usr/bin/git again because it's just an Apple stub and I have no intention of installing Apple's developer tool package that is gigabytes large. It's bad enough that the last OS X system update was 1.7GB. Furthermore, you can't even install Linux on a new MacBook or MacBook Pro. Apple transposed digits in the PCI class ID for the SSD so it's not even recognized as an SSD by the installer. Then there's Docker. Docker == Linux.
rconti 10y ago
A several-sentence anecdata blogpost from someone too inexperienced to realize people were switching FROM Linux TO OS X in the first place? And that steps on its own thesis by admitting he still uses Apple hardware, so he'll be one of the "90%" you see using Apple systems? How did such a terrible "article" get upvoted in the first place?
alfalfasprout 10y ago
Not only that, but I think the hate on the new MBP is rather unjustified. I'm writing on my work 13" 2015 MBP and I have a personal 15" 2016 MBP Touchbar. The new MBP weighs a similar amount, the screen is beautiful, and it feels much faster (thanks to the great SSD). Sure, the battery life has issues but I expect that this will be rectified in the next few months. Fact is, I can't find a single Windows laptop right now with anything close to the high quality feel of a MBP right now. I love working in Linux so the OS isn't an issue... but it's like every Windows laptop I use feels plasticy or flimsy in some way. OSX has its own fair share of issues, sure. But fact is, it's productive if you're a developer. With Windows (until WSL matures a lot) you find yourself using hacky workarounds and VMs to get stuff done.
- spronkey 10y ago
  Hmm, I've spent a fair bit of time with the 2016 MBPs and have owned and used many Mac laptops over the past decade. I wouldn't agree that there are no machines with "anything close" to the feel. I agree that the MBP is still at the top, but the Dell XPS, Thinkpad X1, X2x0, X4x0s are close in case, keyboard but lose in speakers and display. HP's top end models are close. Surface Book is extremely close. To be honest, the removal of MagSafe actually drops the overall "quality feel" of the 2016 Mac a step below the older Macs for me. As does the removal of certain other features over the years - such as the battery lights, pulsing sleep light, charging indicator light, tiny microphone input flowers replaced with single larger holes, inbuilt IR remote, etc. I would classify these things as "design quality" - so possibly not the build quality of what is there, but definitely contributed to the machines feeling like they are a cut above what else is out there. The fact that I can't upgrade the Mac at all is basically a deal breaker for me. I thought I could live with it, but after four years of having personal Macs (Air) that can't be upgraded, and work MBPs, seeing my spend on computer hardware literally double thanks to shorter new machine cycles, higher cost of "upgrades", and reduced resale value, I've had enough. Not only that, but my machine satisfaction drops a lot near the end of a machine's usable life (where previously it would be quite linear as I periodically upgraded things), and having to make compromises on storage etc is just too much. Whether OSX is productive as a developer depends greatly on what your particular environment is. In many cases I've observed that Linux can be more streamlined for everyday development, and the disruption that is OSX software updates has increased to the point where it's just as bad as Linux updates. If you can take advantage of Visual Studio for your dev and use some of the integrated toolchains there, you may even get superior productivity to OSX.
BuuQu9hu 10y ago
Lots of other things suck too, lets not discriminate against particular things that suck.

TulliusCicero 10y ago

It used to be that Apple was pretty dominant in creating decent laptop hardware, but these days machines like the XPS 13 and Spectre are very competitive. When we replace my wife's 2012 MacBook Air I think we'll probably get a Windows machine, the latest MacBook refresh was pretty disappointing.

nemacol 10y ago

I agree. This article is basically click bate for people that are not fans of apple (me). It never answer the question posed by the title. The author has not even switched off of Apple totally... but predicts that they will when funds are available.

kls 10y ago
The big three for me where: The discontinuation of the 17 inch MacBook Pro The soldered in ram. And the final one was with the last refresh where they held the top of the line model at 16GB of ram. As a note these where probably all sound business decisions they just chip away at my ideal machine. Which is a large screen machine, with a lot of horse power so that I can simulate an entire network environment locally to eliminate variables as well as use in a disconnected environment.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  Interesting that the iPhone offers 128GB option, but the top end for laptops is 16GB. Why would Apple want to drive developers away?
  - anderiv 10y ago
    RAM vs. Flash storage. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
    - jacobush 10y ago
      Actually Apples vs Apples
  - 7Z7 10y ago
    You've misunderstood. One is RAM, one is storage.
  - kls 10y ago
    I don't think they want to drive developers away, I think that the removal of the 17 inch MBP from their line was a sound business decision the only market left for them are intense gamer who are on the go (i.e 17-20 somethings in school) and developers. The MBP has never been seen as a first class game system so they where never really competitive there and developers are a small subset of the computing market and not all of them prefer a large monitor. Soldered in ram was a decision to reduce the overall size of the MBP to make it thinner. Again this probably appeals to the large consumer market. I don't know the reasoning for not moving the line up to at least 32GB of ram but I would assume their cost to produce to market segment came to a higher profit calculation by not doing it, maybe it offset the cost of the touch bar but that is speculation but I assume they had their reasons. I don't think it is an intentional effort to drive developers away, rather calculated attempt to chase the largest market segment.
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    For reference the top end in flash storage for the MBPro is current 2TB. That's 16X the iPhone's max 128GB.

linkmotif 10y ago

> These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. So I looked for that here, and it turns out he is still using Apple hardware. Yeah, this stuff is really tiresome. What a bandwagon people have going now.

freehunter 10y ago
Remember back in 2015 when it was cool to be anti-Microsoft on HN? Somewhere in 2016, maybe after WWDC, suddenly the Surface was in and Apple was out. The consensus changed almost overnight, anyone using Apple wasn't a hacker anymore. Either you're on Windows wishing you were using Linux, or you're on macOS wishing you were on Windows wishing you were using Linux. And god forbid you buy any new Apple hardware, you dirty shill. Facebook machine, not a professional, MacBook Pro Air and all that.
- RUG3Y 10y ago
  I think people like to support the "underdog". Whatever is popular will inevitably have people that rebel against that popularity. Maybe it's a bit of the hipster attitude. I use a MBP for work, and while the build quality is great, I find the machine itself to be...meh. My older one had more ports, some that I used often and still miss. I would never have a new Mac for that very reason. The OS is decent, usable certainly, but I really would rather be using Linux. I don't have any very strong opinions though. I'd be fine with any machine with a unixy OS on it. I think very strong, hardline opinions on this kind of stuff can sometimes betray immaturity. The world is rarely "black and white".
  - linkmotif 10y ago
    Yeah. Amen. I've not seen a single PC with the Apple build quality. Combine that with Apple Stores providing excellent, best in industry support for a good price: I'd love to go Linux, but someone needs to build a good Linux notebook with Apple grade support for that to happen. I have no time for tinkering or downtime.
- zeveb 10y ago

jlg23 10y ago

> These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. As someone who's never bought Apple HW (but used it, when paid for by employers, as secondary devices): There is no "glorious" PC hardware anymore (though, the top-of-the-line thinkpads from about 2000 were amazing (a20p, anyone?). But today, compared to Apple's pricing, they are so cheap that I can get equivalent HW for half the price (equivalent wrt performance, not manufacturing quality!). I can have it serviced around the world without having to find a vendor-specific shop. And if it really is FUBAR, I can invest the 50% I saved on the initial purchase and get a brand new, next generation PC.

lmm 10y ago
I've got a Surface Book and it's glorious.
Chathamization 10y ago
> But today, compared to Apple's pricing, they are so cheap that I can get equivalent HW for half the price (equivalent wrt performance, not manufacturing quality!). How true is this? For instance, I often see the XPS brought up as an alternative to the MPB, but whenever I look into it, it seems like the price is comparable for similar hardware configurations.[1] [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-vs-dell-xps-13-apple-macbook-dell-xps-13/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-...
- nsxwolf 10y ago
  It's only true if you focus on one or two features or specs and ignore everything else. When people make that claim they usually find something with the same CPU and amount of memory and use it as a comp.
  - jlg23 10y ago
    Of course. But considering things I do not consider essential is like saying "yes" to "you save $1 when buying 5 apples, we charge for 4" when you only wanted one in the first place. The OP wrote about the specific "sw dev" group, not the average user. (e.g.: If I could downgrade the resolution of the displays for a significant discount, apple hw would be much more tempting to me - after all, 99% of the time I spend on computers I look at monospace fonts in emacs...)

jclardy 10y ago

I took a look into linux recently, as a Mac user for the past 10 years. Ended up buying a Chromebook to mess around with it and it is pretty nice, but desktop linux is still missing so much software that I use regularly in macOS. Also, finding suitable notebook hardware to run linux on is still a nightmare unless you enjoy spending time debugging the device that is supposed to improve your productivity. All the unique hardware is missing drivers (SP4, surface book) and things like touch screens and wifi drivers across more "normal" hardware is still finicky. My main gig is iOS dev, so I obviously can't completely swap, but there just isn't any comparable hardware out there that can just run ubuntu out of the box (minus some exceptions like that dell developer edition xps.)

jeena 10y ago
Could you make a (short) list of the apps (for devs?) missing so we could help you perhaps to find alternatives if there are any?
igor_filippov 10y ago
Many articles about people switching from Mac to Linux laptop begin this way: "It's great, but my laptop can't handle sleep mode properly, network stops working from time to time...etc etc But I'm very happy!".
- oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
  I have a mid-2014 13" retina MBP and it has its fair share of problems, namely: * Screen coating wearing off and leaving horrible marks behind (I now use it plugged into a monitor more often than not) * Inputs (trackpad and keyboard) occasionally lock up, usually when unplugging external keyboard/mouse. Closing and opening the lid sometimes fixes this, toggling bluetooth or plugging/unplugging keyboard also sometimes fix; failing that I have to power-cycle using the keyboard power button (the only button that seems to still respond) * Wifi connection has all sorts of problems - access hangs for ~30 seconds every couple of minutes or so. This is very intermittent, and seems to be a problem with our home connection, but other devices don't appear to suffer. I mainly bring this up because the latter two pretty much match your examples of linux complaints - Apple machines are far from perfect!

kls 10y ago

The issue may not be the current hardware he is on, but rather Apple has put their (developer machine) future in doubt by releasing lackluster upgrades to their MacBook Pro line and neglecting it's Mac Pro line for a long time. Thus signaling that they may not be the best option for development longevity. I know it's a decision point of mine, as after the last MacBook Pro release, I decided that my next hardware refresh will most likely be a PC based laptop running one of the BSD's. I was really hoping for a 32 GB ram option. With my need for virtualization and needing to run other machines 16 is getting a little light. I was really disheartened when they went to the soldered ram as it constrains one to the max ram offered via Apple. I just cannot justify buying another 16gb laptop so it's kind of the straw that broke the camels back for me. It is apparent to most that they are moving away from the needs of the developer (in relation to hardware) and many of us don't want to be further constrained by those decisions. I have no ill will towards Apple, just stating my reasoning. They made a business decision and I don't factor into that decision as the best course of action. I therefore have to make the best business decision for myself and factor in how I adjust. It sucks, I like Apple products and will miss OSX but the lack of some hardware capabilities in now outweighing the benefits of the OS. My next machine will most likely be a Sager Laptop running a BSD.

illumin8 10y ago
He says he switched from OS X to Linux years ago, which I assume is long before 2013 when the trashcan Mac Pro was released. This article is garbage. If he likes Linux, that's fine, but don't pretend that Apple's actions in 2016 caused him to travel back in time years ago and switch to Linux...
- bhaak 10y ago
  That's not what he's saying. He's saying "developers are switching from OSX to Linux, here are some links for the interested, I did it years ago and I'm really satisfied". The article doesn't even mention what his reasons were for switching.

igor_filippov 10y ago

It's the same people who participate in various "challenges" and play Pokemon Go claiming that it's good for your health. Many people just need some hoaxes to consume their free time.

bsaunder 10y ago

Apple hardware does suck (now) AND its over priced. The OS and apps are starting to suck too (IMHO). I switched a month ago from MBP. I commented elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13318525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13318525) on this thread with more details and my reasons and new hardware specs.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

CoolGuySteve 10y ago

10 years ago, there was no PC hardware that even came close the weight, dimensions, and build quality of the MacBook Air. Nowadays, PC "ultrabooks" like the XPS13 and UX305 are similar in size and build quality but come in a variety of configurations with better battery life and a choice between low power low res screens and high power high res screens. And they're significantly cheaper. Linux works perfectly on the Intel chipsets these computers use as well with open source drivers from Intel themselves. I haven't had any problems with Ubuntu, my install is pretty much stock Unity. I used to work for Apple and still have Apple stock. As a stock holder, I think they need to make a similar leap with their computers as they did back with the MacBook Air. The two things I would most want from them are a 40" curved screen iMac and and a MacPro replacement that looks something like the Razor Blade Stealth where a full powered GPU attaches via USB-C. I mention these 2 designs because they require a lot of tinkering to get working on the PC side and while Apple doesn't really make anything new, they do polish existing technology extremely well.

thebspatrol 10y ago
The build quality still usually is a narrow miss. Namely, non-apple manufacturers LOVE to cut corners by using plastic on the bottom or more fragmented case design. Touchpads are always iffy too. Does anyone know of any non-apple machines that truly are at parity in build quality? The new Thinkpad X1 looks nice.
- cube2222 10y ago
  Surface Pro 4 / Surface Book, their build quality is amazing. (actually better than Mac's probably)
  - duncanawoods 10y ago
    Is Surface Pro 4 build quality amazing? Don't they have those keyboard cover things that are encased in a vinyl. How is that comparable to an aluminium unibody? The surface book is closer - I like its features/specs but still find it very ugly - I can't get over that huge gappy hinge. I want to like MS products but they are not the quality I want yet. Surface Studio really turned my head though.

LyndsySimon 10y ago

I... agree. Many of the recent articles that have been posted about Apple's new Macbook Pro line have been very low-quality compared to the rest of HN. The comments here provide an order of magnitude more value than the articles themselves. They're more or less serving as a "discuss this currently controversial topic" thread; the articles are irrelevant. While I think they could be easily replaced with a new feature in HN itself, the current solution is working. I'm OK with the article spam.

danjoc 10y ago

>These rants are typical but would be much better if people identified the glorious PC hardware they are using. Razer makes really nice hardware. Visit a Microsoft store or Fry's electronics to see some in person. Aluminum build, current generation CPUs and GPUs. NVidia GPUs not the garbage Apple ships. 32GB RAM and RAID 0 available on the Pro. Hands down superior hardware. Good value for the money. >He then does not identify a single OS X flaw or a reason he loaded Linux onto his Apple hardware. I can easily install developer software on Linux that is blocked by Gatekeeper and SIP on Mac OS X. Every time I update, I have to delete /usr/bin/git again because it's just an Apple stub and I have no intention of installing Apple's developer tool package that is gigabytes large. It's bad enough that the last OS X system update was 1.7GB. Furthermore, you can't even install Linux on a new MacBook or MacBook Pro. Apple transposed digits in the PCI class ID for the SSD so it's not even recognized as an SSD by the installer. Then there's Docker. Docker == Linux.

rconti 10y ago

A several-sentence anecdata blogpost from someone too inexperienced to realize people were switching FROM Linux TO OS X in the first place? And that steps on its own thesis by admitting he still uses Apple hardware, so he'll be one of the "90%" you see using Apple systems? How did such a terrible "article" get upvoted in the first place?

alfalfasprout 10y ago

Not only that, but I think the hate on the new MBP is rather unjustified. I'm writing on my work 13" 2015 MBP and I have a personal 15" 2016 MBP Touchbar. The new MBP weighs a similar amount, the screen is beautiful, and it feels much faster (thanks to the great SSD). Sure, the battery life has issues but I expect that this will be rectified in the next few months. Fact is, I can't find a single Windows laptop right now with anything close to the high quality feel of a MBP right now. I love working in Linux so the OS isn't an issue... but it's like every Windows laptop I use feels plasticy or flimsy in some way. OSX has its own fair share of issues, sure. But fact is, it's productive if you're a developer. With Windows (until WSL matures a lot) you find yourself using hacky workarounds and VMs to get stuff done.

spronkey 10y ago
Hmm, I've spent a fair bit of time with the 2016 MBPs and have owned and used many Mac laptops over the past decade. I wouldn't agree that there are no machines with "anything close" to the feel. I agree that the MBP is still at the top, but the Dell XPS, Thinkpad X1, X2x0, X4x0s are close in case, keyboard but lose in speakers and display. HP's top end models are close. Surface Book is extremely close. To be honest, the removal of MagSafe actually drops the overall "quality feel" of the 2016 Mac a step below the older Macs for me. As does the removal of certain other features over the years - such as the battery lights, pulsing sleep light, charging indicator light, tiny microphone input flowers replaced with single larger holes, inbuilt IR remote, etc. I would classify these things as "design quality" - so possibly not the build quality of what is there, but definitely contributed to the machines feeling like they are a cut above what else is out there. The fact that I can't upgrade the Mac at all is basically a deal breaker for me. I thought I could live with it, but after four years of having personal Macs (Air) that can't be upgraded, and work MBPs, seeing my spend on computer hardware literally double thanks to shorter new machine cycles, higher cost of "upgrades", and reduced resale value, I've had enough. Not only that, but my machine satisfaction drops a lot near the end of a machine's usable life (where previously it would be quite linear as I periodically upgraded things), and having to make compromises on storage etc is just too much. Whether OSX is productive as a developer depends greatly on what your particular environment is. In many cases I've observed that Linux can be more streamlined for everyday development, and the disruption that is OSX software updates has increased to the point where it's just as bad as Linux updates. If you can take advantage of Visual Studio for your dev and use some of the integrated toolchains there, you may even get superior productivity to OSX.

BuuQu9hu 10y ago

Lots of other things suck too, lets not discriminate against particular things that suck.