8 ms·

I hate to be the sanctimonious European on HN, but I was really surprised to read that 3 days and 2 detectives is all that is (or was) used to investigate a mur

by willyt 10y ago

I hate to be the sanctimonious European on HN, but I was really surprised to read that 3 days and 2 detectives is all that is (or was) used to investigate a murder. From American films and tv we get the impression of maverick cops with this gung-ho attitude who investigate alone or with one partner. This article makes me wonder how close to reality is this?

wavefunction 10y ago
You really shouldn't base your understanding of a society on media presentations, other than perhaps very lightly. I just watched a Belgian crime show "La Treve" / The Break on Netflix, but it doesn't mean I assume every Belgium small town is rife with murder and intrigue.
- talmand 10y ago
  Especially since most cop shows these days are just "murder of the week" drivel. I would like another Barney Miller type of show.
- wott 10y ago
  Good, so you've seen one 10-episode Belgian series. We've seen hundred, thousands of of American series and movies (and books). After a while we begin to be able to pull out some constants that are represented, and more importantly and more interestingly, we become able to see the constants which are not purposely represented. You don't realise the massive power of the American cultural imperialism. It is a steamroller: most European people have a better knowledge of the police and justice systems of the USA than of their own country! (And that's not only about fiction but about the news: we also know better the political system and political life of the USA than the ones of our neighbouring countries. We still know our own better, luckily :-) )
  - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
    Is this really true? (I'm American.)
    - angry-hacker 10y ago
      It is true. A lot euros use "free speech, free speech" but majority of countries dont have one! It's an American concept.. You'd be surprised how much the cultural influence America has over here!
  - hsod 10y ago
    I've read a lot of British murder mysteries, so I'm an expert on how British law enforcement works: The official police are always bumbling morons and most crimes are solved by a quirky amateur with a personal connection to the case. Why don't you guys just hire better police? Maybe Sherlock Holmes, Lord Peter Wimsey, and Miss Marple should be running Scotland Yard.
employee8000 10y ago
You're right. Inspector Clouseau and Hercule Poirot would not stop until the murderer was caught.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
at-fates-hands 10y ago
>> the impression of maverick cops with this gung-ho attitude who investigate alone or with one partner. You also forgot the bizarre way TV/Movies compare law enforcement agencies as well: 1) Local cops are the smart ones - FBI are the idiots 2) FBI are the smart ones - Local cops are the idiots 3) CIA/Gov Agents are the smart ones - FBI/local cops are the idiots 4) Local detectives are the smart ones - CIA/FBI/Gov agents are the idiots It's kind of funny to see how each agency is either propped up or summarily demonized - and it changes in every movie or TV show.
Gargoyle 10y ago
In 80-90% of real-life murders, there's no mystery who did it. It's all just basic evidence collection then move on. TV shows are of course centered around cases where the ID of the murderer is harder to prove. That's just basic storytelling.
- loteck 10y ago
  The average murder clearance rate in the USA was about 64% in 2015 [1] so I'm highly skeptical of your claim that 80-90% of murders are not a mystery. [1] http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-t...
  - travmatt 10y ago
    So 80% of known killers are apprehended, 20% aren't? That sounds totally believable - in reality, many communities most affected by homicides are places where police can't guarantee your safety, so speaking to the police could get you targeted as well. Or the people who know the killlers identity are more inclined to just do the killing themselves, rather than wait for police. Moreover, it's tough for a interpersonal conflict to rise to the level of homicide without someone else noticing.
  - Gargoyle 10y ago
    Knowing who the murderer was and having enough evidence to arrest the murderer are two different things.
    - loteck 10y ago
      The article cited addresses this point and it is built into the clearance rate as calculated.
      - Gargoyle 10y ago
        Well then adjust it to having enough evidence to mark it as cleared. If you can't accept that police will often know who committed a murder without having sufficient evidence, you're denying the messiness of the real world.
closeparen 10y ago
If you want a narrative portrayal of realistic death investigation in the US, read Homicide by David Simon.

by willyt 10y ago

wavefunction 10y ago

You really shouldn't base your understanding of a society on media presentations, other than perhaps very lightly. I just watched a Belgian crime show "La Treve" / The Break on Netflix, but it doesn't mean I assume every Belgium small town is rife with murder and intrigue.

talmand 10y ago
Especially since most cop shows these days are just "murder of the week" drivel. I would like another Barney Miller type of show.
wott 10y ago
Good, so you've seen one 10-episode Belgian series. We've seen hundred, thousands of of American series and movies (and books). After a while we begin to be able to pull out some constants that are represented, and more importantly and more interestingly, we become able to see the constants which are not purposely represented. You don't realise the massive power of the American cultural imperialism. It is a steamroller: most European people have a better knowledge of the police and justice systems of the USA than of their own country! (And that's not only about fiction but about the news: we also know better the political system and political life of the USA than the ones of our neighbouring countries. We still know our own better, luckily :-) )
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
  Is this really true? (I'm American.)
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    It is true. A lot euros use "free speech, free speech" but majority of countries dont have one! It's an American concept.. You'd be surprised how much the cultural influence America has over here!
- hsod 10y ago
  I've read a lot of British murder mysteries, so I'm an expert on how British law enforcement works: The official police are always bumbling morons and most crimes are solved by a quirky amateur with a personal connection to the case. Why don't you guys just hire better police? Maybe Sherlock Holmes, Lord Peter Wimsey, and Miss Marple should be running Scotland Yard.

employee8000 10y ago

You're right. Inspector Clouseau and Hercule Poirot would not stop until the murderer was caught.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

at-fates-hands 10y ago

>> the impression of maverick cops with this gung-ho attitude who investigate alone or with one partner. You also forgot the bizarre way TV/Movies compare law enforcement agencies as well: 1) Local cops are the smart ones - FBI are the idiots 2) FBI are the smart ones - Local cops are the idiots 3) CIA/Gov Agents are the smart ones - FBI/local cops are the idiots 4) Local detectives are the smart ones - CIA/FBI/Gov agents are the idiots It's kind of funny to see how each agency is either propped up or summarily demonized - and it changes in every movie or TV show.

Gargoyle 10y ago

In 80-90% of real-life murders, there's no mystery who did it. It's all just basic evidence collection then move on. TV shows are of course centered around cases where the ID of the murderer is harder to prove. That's just basic storytelling.

loteck 10y ago
The average murder clearance rate in the USA was about 64% in 2015 [1] so I'm highly skeptical of your claim that 80-90% of murders are not a mystery. [1] http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-t...
- travmatt 10y ago
  So 80% of known killers are apprehended, 20% aren't? That sounds totally believable - in reality, many communities most affected by homicides are places where police can't guarantee your safety, so speaking to the police could get you targeted as well. Or the people who know the killlers identity are more inclined to just do the killing themselves, rather than wait for police. Moreover, it's tough for a interpersonal conflict to rise to the level of homicide without someone else noticing.
- Gargoyle 10y ago
  Knowing who the murderer was and having enough evidence to arrest the murderer are two different things.
  - loteck 10y ago
    The article cited addresses this point and it is built into the clearance rate as calculated.
    - Gargoyle 10y ago
      Well then adjust it to having enough evidence to mark it as cleared. If you can't accept that police will often know who committed a murder without having sufficient evidence, you're denying the messiness of the real world.

closeparen 10y ago

If you want a narrative portrayal of realistic death investigation in the US, read Homicide by David Simon.