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> The Apple hardware and operating system have been standards for developers for many years now. I disagree with that statement. You can argue that many develo

by drKarl 10y ago

> The Apple hardware and operating system have been standards for developers for many years now. I disagree with that statement. You can argue that many developers like to use MacBooks, but from that to saying that it's standard there's a long way... > and sells overpriced hardware Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware

akerro 10y ago
>Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware But people realised it now, so they write short blog posts about it now.
72deluxe 10y ago
I used to think that they sell overpriced hardware but if I look around for a similar device all I see is an expensive Microsoft device. I always thought a good device was going to cost at least £1000.
coldtea 10y ago
>Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware Apple recently sells obsolete hardware overpriced (e.g. 2-3 years old minis or Mac Pros). Aside from that, they din't historically sell "overpriced" hardware. What they did sell was only/mainly high end hardware (not in raw cpu/gpu performance, in the construction, feature set, etc). Time and again, when websites or people tried to match item per item the respective Apple PC with an equivalent Wintel PC (of the same class, e.g. VAIO back in the day, Dell XPS, etc) AND match the various features, they always ended up in parity or very near parity. And with some features without match at all on the other side (e.g. no magsafe option, lesser trackpad quality, etc). Even in stuff like tablets, anybody who's been there at the time, remembers that competitors to the iPad took more than a year to bring a device with matching specs AND a smaller price out. The responses from various vendors were up to 20% to 30% higher than the iPad asking price.
- martinald 10y ago
  I don't even agree with this. When the original Core Duo MacBooks came out, they were by far the cheapest dual core laptops about for quite some time. Even discounting the better build quality, trackpads etc that they had.
Yaggo 10y ago
> Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware Overpriced, compared to what? To competitors, which can't even produce similar product? Overpriced in terms of market demand, while making big profit? If you buy your PC components from Apple, that's your problem. Nobody complains that Bosch automotive industry components are expensive if you buy them from Tesla in the form of Model S. Not to mention that Apple's price always include both hardware and software, because they are bundled, so you don't actually know the price of hardware, because with Mac, you also buy a licence for OS X, essentially.
rorykoehler 10y ago
Each microprocessor is graded in the factory. Apple buys up all the highest graded chips meaning no one else can get any.
- na85 10y ago
  What a joke. Got a source saying that the i7 I buy from Intel is somehow inferior to the one that ships in an Apple product?
  - rorykoehler 10y ago
    http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33816/the-manufacturing-and-grading-of-families-of-microprocessors http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33816/the-man... I can't find the source just now though I do remember reading about apple prebuying all perfect chips of certain classes therefore making then unavailable to the competition. Given their purchasing power I don't find this wholly inconceivable.
    - na85 10y ago
      No source, then. Okie dokie.
      - rorykoehler 10y ago
        That kind of tone is not why I and most others come to Hackernews. Please refrain from it in future. I did come across this article where Cook essentially says buying these components is a company secret.... http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/18/apple_commits_3_9_billion_to_secret_long_term_component_contracts http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/18/apple_commits_3_9_...
- valarauca1 10y ago
  Each microprocessor is graded in the factory Yes Intel does binning but that is to classify processor classes. Intel runs their E3, i7, i5, and i3 production on the same die. It looks like this: Memory controller went bad and can't handle ECC? Looks like an that E3-1??? vX just became an i7-X???. Virtualization went bad? That i7-X??? just became an i5-X??? Bad 1/2 cores? Well that i5-X??? just became an i3-X??? There is additional binning but that just determines if the processor can have an unlocked multiplier or not.
kayoone 10y ago
> Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware No, a lot of Apple hardware was/is competitively priced when they launch, they just never lower the price so you have to be smart about the purchase. Macbook Pros compared to similar quality Thinkpads/Elite Books/Dell Latitude/Precision have never been really overpriced for what they offer, it's different for the latest generation though.

by drKarl 10y ago

akerro 10y ago

>Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware But people realised it now, so they write short blog posts about it now.

72deluxe 10y ago

I used to think that they sell overpriced hardware but if I look around for a similar device all I see is an expensive Microsoft device. I always thought a good device was going to cost at least £1000.

coldtea 10y ago

>Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware Apple recently sells obsolete hardware overpriced (e.g. 2-3 years old minis or Mac Pros). Aside from that, they din't historically sell "overpriced" hardware. What they did sell was only/mainly high end hardware (not in raw cpu/gpu performance, in the construction, feature set, etc). Time and again, when websites or people tried to match item per item the respective Apple PC with an equivalent Wintel PC (of the same class, e.g. VAIO back in the day, Dell XPS, etc) AND match the various features, they always ended up in parity or very near parity. And with some features without match at all on the other side (e.g. no magsafe option, lesser trackpad quality, etc). Even in stuff like tablets, anybody who's been there at the time, remembers that competitors to the iPad took more than a year to bring a device with matching specs AND a smaller price out. The responses from various vendors were up to 20% to 30% higher than the iPad asking price.

martinald 10y ago
I don't even agree with this. When the original Core Duo MacBooks came out, they were by far the cheapest dual core laptops about for quite some time. Even discounting the better build quality, trackpads etc that they had.

Yaggo 10y ago

> Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware Overpriced, compared to what? To competitors, which can't even produce similar product? Overpriced in terms of market demand, while making big profit? If you buy your PC components from Apple, that's your problem. Nobody complains that Bosch automotive industry components are expensive if you buy them from Tesla in the form of Model S. Not to mention that Apple's price always include both hardware and software, because they are bundled, so you don't actually know the price of hardware, because with Mac, you also buy a licence for OS X, essentially.

rorykoehler 10y ago

Each microprocessor is graded in the factory. Apple buys up all the highest graded chips meaning no one else can get any.

na85 10y ago
What a joke. Got a source saying that the i7 I buy from Intel is somehow inferior to the one that ships in an Apple product?
- rorykoehler 10y ago
  http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33816/the-manufacturing-and-grading-of-families-of-microprocessors http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33816/the-man... I can't find the source just now though I do remember reading about apple prebuying all perfect chips of certain classes therefore making then unavailable to the competition. Given their purchasing power I don't find this wholly inconceivable.
  - na85 10y ago
    No source, then. Okie dokie.
    - rorykoehler 10y ago
      That kind of tone is not why I and most others come to Hackernews. Please refrain from it in future. I did come across this article where Cook essentially says buying these components is a company secret.... http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/18/apple_commits_3_9_billion_to_secret_long_term_component_contracts http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/18/apple_commits_3_9_...
valarauca1 10y ago
Each microprocessor is graded in the factory Yes Intel does binning but that is to classify processor classes. Intel runs their E3, i7, i5, and i3 production on the same die. It looks like this: Memory controller went bad and can't handle ECC? Looks like an that E3-1??? vX just became an i7-X???. Virtualization went bad? That i7-X??? just became an i5-X??? Bad 1/2 cores? Well that i5-X??? just became an i3-X??? There is additional binning but that just determines if the processor can have an unlocked multiplier or not.

kayoone 10y ago

> Apple has ALWAYS sold overpriced hardware No, a lot of Apple hardware was/is competitively priced when they launch, they just never lower the price so you have to be smart about the purchase. Macbook Pros compared to similar quality Thinkpads/Elite Books/Dell Latitude/Precision have never been really overpriced for what they offer, it's different for the latest generation though.