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Thing is, if I had to guess, I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. That's almost

Thing is, if I had to guess, I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. That's almost certainly just its pretext for everyone who's willing to fall for it. Most likely, it does that to make sure it can identify you globally and uniquely for commercial/advertising purposes. Think about how much more valuable your online identity is if you go solely by Jon Doe rather than by foolover123, bar456fudger, and nighthowler789?

blauditore 10y ago
I doubt this, since Facebook doesn't seem to care much about fantasy names. They get most interest data about you from within FB (what pages and posts you like etc.) and from pages across the internet you visit through like buttons embedded there (even without clicking them). So there's a lot of relevant meta data directly linked to your account and no need for them to know your real name.
- wfunction 10y ago
  Does use of this [1] information not include attempting to match up the user's real-life name with his/her Facebook name? [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/494750870625830 https://www.facebook.com/help/494750870625830
- mattnewton 10y ago
  There was a good article on pro publica [0] (who I trust very much) about facebook's use of offline data source, and that presumably needs to be linked by real name [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-users-everything-it-really-knows-about-them https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-user...
- thanatropism 10y ago
  Last time I tried to create an alt account they insisted on a phone number, though.
  - blauditore 10y ago
    That's more about uniqueness than using your real name. Spam and fraud accounts are a rather big problem, and this is one way of raising the barrier for creating those. And yeah, Facebook surely has other motivation too, like not having your metadata scattered across multiple accounts. But I still don't see how knowing your real name would make a strong difference to them. I have quite a few FB friends that use obvious fantasy names (mostly for privacy reasons I think), and they don't seem to be banned or forced to change it.
    - mattnewton 10y ago
      As other people and myself have said elsewhere, they buy information from many personal information brokers, and this data (presumably) wants a real name to be linked. They can't know that fake names are fake in all instances (and have gotten a lot of backlash by trying to do so), but there real name policy would have a real effect on their ability to link offline data to your online profile so they can better sell your eyeballs to advertisers.
    - thanatropism 10y ago
      My whole real life is already on Facebook under my real name. But sometimes I wish I could say things on Facebook for a different group of people without my professors or my boss knowing.
matt4077 10y ago
Real names are the difference between Facebook and MySpace. I'm not friends on FB with anybody I haven't met in real life.
- Tharkun 10y ago
  How does their display name affect that relationship? You can meet people in meatspace, and even know their name, without FB knowing their name.
  - eriknstr 10y ago
    Because the opposite case of adding a random stranger might be different when everyone is using real names and you feel that you should know them irl to add them.
- vidarh 10y ago
  Most of the people I would consider friends are people I haven't met in real life. And for many years a majority of my friend circle were people I probably never even knew the "real" name of - people in the demo/cracking scene where it was often common for people to introduce you by handle and group (e.g. say Strider of Fairlight, to take a "well known" example from the scene that I spoke to on the phone but back in the day but never met, who I can't for the life of me remember the real name of). Some of these people I'd meet in person regularly and still not use the real name of because their real name was not what people around us would know them by in that context. My ex goes by three different names: Her "real" name from her passport. An Anglicized name that her immediate family and childhoold school friends uses, and a different Anglicized name that most of her work colleagues and newer friends uses. Many of them don't know the other names. A lot of people have different names that are used in different contexts that are just as real as the others, just not legally recognised.
  - Inconel 10y ago
    I just wanted to say that as someone who never really had much access to computers during my teens and early 20's due to financial reasons, and subsequently missed out on the kind of online friendships you're describing, they have always seemed extraordinarily cool to me.
lmm 10y ago
> Think about how much more valuable your online identity is if you go solely by Jon Doe rather than by foolover123, bar456fudger, and nighthowler789? Not very. Assuming the demographic infomation is still accurate, that's the part they can sell.
Fnoord 10y ago
> I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. They're not even allowed to enforce it in Germany [1]: "Facebook may not prevent its users from using fake names, a German privacy watchdog said on Tuesday, in the latest privacy setback for the U.S. company in Europe." Note that said authority is part of the government (unlike, say, EFF). [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-germany-pseudonyms-idUSKCN0Q21U620150728 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-germany-pseudonym...
- dx034 10y ago
  Facebook won't care. Worst case, they'll get a fine of <1mln after a year long process. Similar to the right of getting all your data in the EU. They stopped answering requests and the government representative in Ireland (who is responsible) also stopped replying to emails. They'll give you all your data if you sue them, otherwise they just ignore the laws. With Dublin on their side, there's little the EU can do.
  - type0 10y ago
    That's bad, worse than I thought. Sounds like someone needs to start collective legal proceedings. Maybe edri.org can help?
  - wfunction 10y ago
    Would you have any links to articles about this? I'd like to read more.
morgante 10y ago
Facebook doesn't need you to give your name to figure out who you are. They don't sell advertising based on your name. Also, I think it's unfair to pretend that real names don't make a difference. They're a big part of what makes Facebook different than MySpace, Twitter, or other social networks.
- newscracker 10y ago
  > Facebook doesn't need you to give your name to figure out who you are. They don't sell advertising based on your name. Well, they do need your name to link and correlate it with other data sources (like address books uploaded by people, offline data sources like data brokers, etc.) and use that to show "better ads" and make more money. The value lies in identifying related information with attributes like name, age, sex, location, preferences, check-ins, etc. > Also, I think it's unfair to pretend that real names don't make a difference. They're a big part of what makes Facebook different than MySpace, Twitter, or other social networks. Nobody is pretending. There are millions of people, not just a few exceptions, who use their real names and still engage in horrible behavior on Facebook. It's a misconception that "real names" makes people behave better or brings in accountability. It doesn't for the ones who harass others. On the other hand, using a real name exposes people to plenty of abuse online, like getting their profiles reported and deactivated because of Facebook's nonsensical rules and utter lack of any consideration for users, while bullies just go around shutting down people. Facebook is a great tool to shut people down whom one may disagree with. Reading EFF and other sites' articles on Facebook's "real name policy" and the later rechristened "authentic name policy" would show the dark side of using real names online.
  - morgante 10y ago
    With the wealth of data that Facebook has on you, I'm confident they could figure out your name even if they didn't enforce a real name policy. > Nobody is pretending. Just because some people are willing to still troll under their real names does not mean it doesn't have a substantive impact on people's behavior. Heck, I personally have seen the difference in my own activity on Reddit (where I'm anonymous) and HN (where I'm not). I definitely hold myself to a higher standard here, even when arguments get heated, because this is part of my professional profile (and Reddit is not).
usrusr 10y ago
Targeted advertising to pseudonyms would be no less targeted, because it is based on what I do with the logged-in browser, not on the sequence of characters in the name field. I really don't think I get spillover ads targeted at the dozen or so people who share my firstname lastname. But what I do with the logged-in browser is influenced a lot by wether it is a community with a real name expectation our wether it is a pseudonym playground. The virtual place where we connect with people we meet while parenting our enjoying an expensive outdoor hobby provides infinitely more valuable targeting opportunities than the places we go to indulge in shamefully inappropriate jokes. Making the community better is not a pretext for pro-advertising features, it is a key pro-advertising feature itself.
thrw123 10y ago
Regardless of whether Facebook enforces the real name policy or not, simply assuming it internally can be damaging. There is a person on Facebook using my exact (very rare) name, going to my exact university, living in my exact city, also happening to be gay like me. However unlikely that this is just one gigantic coincidence, I would have been willing to let it slide if their public Facebook timeline wasn't filled with desperate pleads and public invitations to be sexually pleased in every possible bodily orifice. Me and a dozen other friends reported the profile as impersonating me and it was denied literally 3 minutes later, which, I guess, is completely understandable considering I use a pseudonym on Facebook. So what would be the solution? Changing my Facebook name to my real name and uploading a scan of some document to prove to Facebook that it is really me? Seems like too much to lose and practically nothing to gain (I'm not overly upset about the impersonator but I wouldn't mind them gone)
- type0 10y ago
  I think you should be upset and do something about it. You never know if it is going to cost you missed career opportunities because some employer looked you up on facebook, found the impersonator and decided to decline your job application. > So what would be the solution? Changing my Facebook name to my real name and uploading a scan of some document to prove to Facebook that it is really me? Close your FB account, write a blog post and/or magazine articles about it, contact facebook and demand to remove this impersonator for slander and defamation.
- mjevans 10y ago
  Honestly? The only recourse you have here (as you already asked nicely and were denied, for obvious reasons) is to sue. Your suit's path is probably to compel Facebook to reveal the contact info of the person defaming your name and identity; which will then be served with the actual suit. Worse it'll probably be some punk kid (no money, no real consequences, etc) and you'll be left with nothing but giant legal fees. If anything this is a clear indication that //allowing// real names online is insanity. The polar opposite of current policy should be in effect.
Frqy3 10y ago
Your online identity is also more valuable if Facebook can link your profile in with data brokers such as Acxiom.
forgottenpass 10y ago
>I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. Believing the line of reasoning that real names lead to better communities is like believing a blog post explaining why open office plans are uniformly better for worker productivity/morale/whatever. At the end of the day there are probably some true believers, but they're just useful idiots to people with ulterior motives.

blauditore 10y ago

I doubt this, since Facebook doesn't seem to care much about fantasy names. They get most interest data about you from within FB (what pages and posts you like etc.) and from pages across the internet you visit through like buttons embedded there (even without clicking them). So there's a lot of relevant meta data directly linked to your account and no need for them to know your real name.

wfunction 10y ago
Does use of this [1] information not include attempting to match up the user's real-life name with his/her Facebook name? [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/494750870625830 https://www.facebook.com/help/494750870625830
mattnewton 10y ago
There was a good article on pro publica [0] (who I trust very much) about facebook's use of offline data source, and that presumably needs to be linked by real name [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-users-everything-it-really-knows-about-them https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-doesnt-tell-user...
thanatropism 10y ago
Last time I tried to create an alt account they insisted on a phone number, though.
- blauditore 10y ago
  That's more about uniqueness than using your real name. Spam and fraud accounts are a rather big problem, and this is one way of raising the barrier for creating those. And yeah, Facebook surely has other motivation too, like not having your metadata scattered across multiple accounts. But I still don't see how knowing your real name would make a strong difference to them. I have quite a few FB friends that use obvious fantasy names (mostly for privacy reasons I think), and they don't seem to be banned or forced to change it.
  - mattnewton 10y ago
    As other people and myself have said elsewhere, they buy information from many personal information brokers, and this data (presumably) wants a real name to be linked. They can't know that fake names are fake in all instances (and have gotten a lot of backlash by trying to do so), but there real name policy would have a real effect on their ability to link offline data to your online profile so they can better sell your eyeballs to advertisers.
  - thanatropism 10y ago
    My whole real life is already on Facebook under my real name. But sometimes I wish I could say things on Facebook for a different group of people without my professors or my boss knowing.

matt4077 10y ago

Real names are the difference between Facebook and MySpace. I'm not friends on FB with anybody I haven't met in real life.

Tharkun 10y ago
How does their display name affect that relationship? You can meet people in meatspace, and even know their name, without FB knowing their name.
- eriknstr 10y ago
  Because the opposite case of adding a random stranger might be different when everyone is using real names and you feel that you should know them irl to add them.
vidarh 10y ago
Most of the people I would consider friends are people I haven't met in real life. And for many years a majority of my friend circle were people I probably never even knew the "real" name of - people in the demo/cracking scene where it was often common for people to introduce you by handle and group (e.g. say Strider of Fairlight, to take a "well known" example from the scene that I spoke to on the phone but back in the day but never met, who I can't for the life of me remember the real name of). Some of these people I'd meet in person regularly and still not use the real name of because their real name was not what people around us would know them by in that context. My ex goes by three different names: Her "real" name from her passport. An Anglicized name that her immediate family and childhoold school friends uses, and a different Anglicized name that most of her work colleagues and newer friends uses. Many of them don't know the other names. A lot of people have different names that are used in different contexts that are just as real as the others, just not legally recognised.
- Inconel 10y ago
  I just wanted to say that as someone who never really had much access to computers during my teens and early 20's due to financial reasons, and subsequently missed out on the kind of online friendships you're describing, they have always seemed extraordinarily cool to me.

lmm 10y ago

> Think about how much more valuable your online identity is if you go solely by Jon Doe rather than by foolover123, bar456fudger, and nighthowler789? Not very. Assuming the demographic infomation is still accurate, that's the part they can sell.

Fnoord 10y ago

> I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. They're not even allowed to enforce it in Germany [1]: "Facebook may not prevent its users from using fake names, a German privacy watchdog said on Tuesday, in the latest privacy setback for the U.S. company in Europe." Note that said authority is part of the government (unlike, say, EFF). [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-germany-pseudonyms-idUSKCN0Q21U620150728 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-germany-pseudonym...

dx034 10y ago
Facebook won't care. Worst case, they'll get a fine of <1mln after a year long process. Similar to the right of getting all your data in the EU. They stopped answering requests and the government representative in Ireland (who is responsible) also stopped replying to emails. They'll give you all your data if you sue them, otherwise they just ignore the laws. With Dublin on their side, there's little the EU can do.
- type0 10y ago
  That's bad, worse than I thought. Sounds like someone needs to start collective legal proceedings. Maybe edri.org can help?
- wfunction 10y ago
  Would you have any links to articles about this? I'd like to read more.

morgante 10y ago

Facebook doesn't need you to give your name to figure out who you are. They don't sell advertising based on your name. Also, I think it's unfair to pretend that real names don't make a difference. They're a big part of what makes Facebook different than MySpace, Twitter, or other social networks.

newscracker 10y ago
> Facebook doesn't need you to give your name to figure out who you are. They don't sell advertising based on your name. Well, they do need your name to link and correlate it with other data sources (like address books uploaded by people, offline data sources like data brokers, etc.) and use that to show "better ads" and make more money. The value lies in identifying related information with attributes like name, age, sex, location, preferences, check-ins, etc. > Also, I think it's unfair to pretend that real names don't make a difference. They're a big part of what makes Facebook different than MySpace, Twitter, or other social networks. Nobody is pretending. There are millions of people, not just a few exceptions, who use their real names and still engage in horrible behavior on Facebook. It's a misconception that "real names" makes people behave better or brings in accountability. It doesn't for the ones who harass others. On the other hand, using a real name exposes people to plenty of abuse online, like getting their profiles reported and deactivated because of Facebook's nonsensical rules and utter lack of any consideration for users, while bullies just go around shutting down people. Facebook is a great tool to shut people down whom one may disagree with. Reading EFF and other sites' articles on Facebook's "real name policy" and the later rechristened "authentic name policy" would show the dark side of using real names online.
- morgante 10y ago
  With the wealth of data that Facebook has on you, I'm confident they could figure out your name even if they didn't enforce a real name policy. > Nobody is pretending. Just because some people are willing to still troll under their real names does not mean it doesn't have a substantive impact on people's behavior. Heck, I personally have seen the difference in my own activity on Reddit (where I'm anonymous) and HN (where I'm not). I definitely hold myself to a higher standard here, even when arguments get heated, because this is part of my professional profile (and Reddit is not).

usrusr 10y ago

Targeted advertising to pseudonyms would be no less targeted, because it is based on what I do with the logged-in browser, not on the sequence of characters in the name field. I really don't think I get spillover ads targeted at the dozen or so people who share my firstname lastname. But what I do with the logged-in browser is influenced a lot by wether it is a community with a real name expectation our wether it is a pseudonym playground. The virtual place where we connect with people we meet while parenting our enjoying an expensive outdoor hobby provides infinitely more valuable targeting opportunities than the places we go to indulge in shamefully inappropriate jokes. Making the community better is not a pretext for pro-advertising features, it is a key pro-advertising feature itself.

thrw123 10y ago

Regardless of whether Facebook enforces the real name policy or not, simply assuming it internally can be damaging. There is a person on Facebook using my exact (very rare) name, going to my exact university, living in my exact city, also happening to be gay like me. However unlikely that this is just one gigantic coincidence, I would have been willing to let it slide if their public Facebook timeline wasn't filled with desperate pleads and public invitations to be sexually pleased in every possible bodily orifice. Me and a dozen other friends reported the profile as impersonating me and it was denied literally 3 minutes later, which, I guess, is completely understandable considering I use a pseudonym on Facebook. So what would be the solution? Changing my Facebook name to my real name and uploading a scan of some document to prove to Facebook that it is really me? Seems like too much to lose and practically nothing to gain (I'm not overly upset about the impersonator but I wouldn't mind them gone)

type0 10y ago
I think you should be upset and do something about it. You never know if it is going to cost you missed career opportunities because some employer looked you up on facebook, found the impersonator and decided to decline your job application. > So what would be the solution? Changing my Facebook name to my real name and uploading a scan of some document to prove to Facebook that it is really me? Close your FB account, write a blog post and/or magazine articles about it, contact facebook and demand to remove this impersonator for slander and defamation.
mjevans 10y ago
Honestly? The only recourse you have here (as you already asked nicely and were denied, for obvious reasons) is to sue. Your suit's path is probably to compel Facebook to reveal the contact info of the person defaming your name and identity; which will then be served with the actual suit. Worse it'll probably be some punk kid (no money, no real consequences, etc) and you'll be left with nothing but giant legal fees. If anything this is a clear indication that //allowing// real names online is insanity. The polar opposite of current policy should be in effect.

Frqy3 10y ago

Your online identity is also more valuable if Facebook can link your profile in with data brokers such as Acxiom.

forgottenpass 10y ago

>I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. Believing the line of reasoning that real names lead to better communities is like believing a blog post explaining why open office plans are uniformly better for worker productivity/morale/whatever. At the end of the day there are probably some true believers, but they're just useful idiots to people with ulterior motives.