5 ms·

If I sign a contract saying you can kill me and you do, it's still murder. Contracts cannot override the law.

dingaling 10y ago
> Contracts cannot override the law. Indeed, but they can stipulate other consequences. For example in current $WORKPLACE, being found to operate an unapproved wifi AP will result in a disciplinary action. Too many of those and dismissal follows.
- jfoutz 10y ago
  that's not quite the same thing. It becomes obvious if you up the stakes. In current $WORKPLACE, being found to murder children will result in disciplinary action. Too many of those and dismissal follows. So, the dismissal matters not at all, murdering children is the underlying problem. It's illegal and no contract can make that ok.
  - simonh 10y ago
    Operating an AP is not illegal, so I don't see how that example is relevant. Conversely using a mobile phone to make a phone call is legal, but it's not allowed on the trading floors of banks. So it can be legal to refrain people from performing some legal activities on your premises. So I think a hotel probably can ban guests from operating a wireless AP, but jamming such activity using active measures is going too far.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Kadin 10y ago
      The banks, presumably, have a fairly good reason for restricting that activity, and the people on the trading floor have been given significant consideration (employment, perhaps, or access to the trading floor on behalf of their employer) in exchange for agreement to those terms. Chucking a "you can't bring your own WiFi [because we want to make more money selling it to you]" term into the standard language on a hotel agreement might have a much harder time passing muster. Further, there's a lot of caselaw built up over time that treats dwelling places, even temporary ones like hotels, differently than workplaces. (E.g. it's perfectly fine for your employer to set up cameras in your office to keep an eye on employees, but if a hotel did that in guests' rooms they'd have a problem on their hands, and I strongly suspect that wouldn't change even if they put some "you consent to be photographed!" small print on the check-in agreement along with the no-smoking policy and other boilerplate.)
    - morgante 10y ago
      > So I think a hotel probably can ban guests from operating a wireless AP, but jamming such activity using active measures is going too far. Exactly. It's the jamming which is illegal, not the ban.

> Contracts cannot override the law. Indeed, but they can stipulate other consequences. For example in current $WORKPLACE, being found to operate an unapproved wifi AP will result in a disciplinary action. Too many of those and dismissal follows.

jfoutz 10y ago
that's not quite the same thing. It becomes obvious if you up the stakes. In current $WORKPLACE, being found to murder children will result in disciplinary action. Too many of those and dismissal follows. So, the dismissal matters not at all, murdering children is the underlying problem. It's illegal and no contract can make that ok.
- simonh 10y ago
  Operating an AP is not illegal, so I don't see how that example is relevant. Conversely using a mobile phone to make a phone call is legal, but it's not allowed on the trading floors of banks. So it can be legal to refrain people from performing some legal activities on your premises. So I think a hotel probably can ban guests from operating a wireless AP, but jamming such activity using active measures is going too far.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Kadin 10y ago
    The banks, presumably, have a fairly good reason for restricting that activity, and the people on the trading floor have been given significant consideration (employment, perhaps, or access to the trading floor on behalf of their employer) in exchange for agreement to those terms. Chucking a "you can't bring your own WiFi [because we want to make more money selling it to you]" term into the standard language on a hotel agreement might have a much harder time passing muster. Further, there's a lot of caselaw built up over time that treats dwelling places, even temporary ones like hotels, differently than workplaces. (E.g. it's perfectly fine for your employer to set up cameras in your office to keep an eye on employees, but if a hotel did that in guests' rooms they'd have a problem on their hands, and I strongly suspect that wouldn't change even if they put some "you consent to be photographed!" small print on the check-in agreement along with the no-smoking policy and other boilerplate.)
  - morgante 10y ago
    > So I think a hotel probably can ban guests from operating a wireless AP, but jamming such activity using active measures is going too far. Exactly. It's the jamming which is illegal, not the ban.