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"They're making shit up" is a perfectly scientific explanation. See N-Rays or Vulcan.

dpark 10y ago
"They're making shit up" isn't a scientific explanation for repeated anomalous results by independent experimenters. The likely explanation is "it's really hard to isolate this setup so that we can measure it effectively".
- archgoon 10y ago
  Sure it is. It happens all the time. See N Rays and Vulcan. Small effects, barely reproducible results are expected when you've got people all over the world looking at something.
  - dpark 10y ago
    Thankfully the scientific community just ignored N-rays and Vulcan entirely despite the repeated observations. Or well-respected scientists investigated and debunked the anomalous results. Because that's how science works.
    - archgoon 10y ago
      Actually, Vulcan basically got discarded because a better theory arose independently (we still don't know what people actually saw that resulted in the Vulcan transits). People still on occasion poke around looking to see if anything shows up, but so far, nothing. That is to say, investigating Vulcan actually increased the false belief in Vulcan. In the case of the emdrive, we've got plenty of theoretical reasons to assume it's wrong. It's really on the proponents to come up with more convincing evidence. Occam's razor and all that. If you feel bored, check it out, but there's probably nothing there.
      - dpark 10y ago
        My understanding is that Vulcan was essentially ruled out because it didn't even match Newtonian physics. Later Einstein presented a theory that explained Mercury's orbit in a compelling way, but that wasn't necessary to rule out Vulcan once people started seriously considering it. I feel differently about EmDrive than you, I guess. Digging into anomalies seems like good science to me. I'm glad it's happening if just to provide a counterpoint to the sensational reporting.
        kobeya 10y ago
        Digging into anomalies is exactly how the science of physics progresses. It was digging into the anomaly of the Michaelson-Morley experiment that led Einstein to his theory of relativity. We don't know what will come of this purported space drive, but if it is real It could be where our next theory of everything comes from. Maybe. It's worth looking into at least.

dpark 10y ago

"They're making shit up" isn't a scientific explanation for repeated anomalous results by independent experimenters. The likely explanation is "it's really hard to isolate this setup so that we can measure it effectively".

archgoon 10y ago
Sure it is. It happens all the time. See N Rays and Vulcan. Small effects, barely reproducible results are expected when you've got people all over the world looking at something.
- dpark 10y ago
  Thankfully the scientific community just ignored N-rays and Vulcan entirely despite the repeated observations. Or well-respected scientists investigated and debunked the anomalous results. Because that's how science works.
  - archgoon 10y ago
    Actually, Vulcan basically got discarded because a better theory arose independently (we still don't know what people actually saw that resulted in the Vulcan transits). People still on occasion poke around looking to see if anything shows up, but so far, nothing. That is to say, investigating Vulcan actually increased the false belief in Vulcan. In the case of the emdrive, we've got plenty of theoretical reasons to assume it's wrong. It's really on the proponents to come up with more convincing evidence. Occam's razor and all that. If you feel bored, check it out, but there's probably nothing there.
    - dpark 10y ago
      My understanding is that Vulcan was essentially ruled out because it didn't even match Newtonian physics. Later Einstein presented a theory that explained Mercury's orbit in a compelling way, but that wasn't necessary to rule out Vulcan once people started seriously considering it. I feel differently about EmDrive than you, I guess. Digging into anomalies seems like good science to me. I'm glad it's happening if just to provide a counterpoint to the sensational reporting.
      - kobeya 10y ago
        Digging into anomalies is exactly how the science of physics progresses. It was digging into the anomaly of the Michaelson-Morley experiment that led Einstein to his theory of relativity. We don't know what will come of this purported space drive, but if it is real It could be where our next theory of everything comes from. Maybe. It's worth looking into at least.