4 ms·

This isn't really true, unless that book from the 1920s spoke of some things generally. When the events were actually happening the late 1930s, multiple times H

This isn't really true, unless that book from the 1920s spoke of some things generally. When the events were actually happening the late 1930s, multiple times Hitler said he was not interested in further conquests, promising normalcy and peace. Remember he signed a treaty with Chamberlain saying so, and also another with Molotov (which Hitler also violated). The Holocaust was hidden so effectively from the world that the Allied powers plausibly denied knowledge of it. Germans living in nearby towns denied knowledge of it. EDIT: Some edits to qualify statements that were too absolute

LyndsySimon 10y ago
> The Holocaust was hidden so effectively from the world that the Allied powers plausibly denied knowledge of it. I don't believe this assertion. The Holocaust was reported in great detail by those fleeing Nazi rule, and the Allied powers absolutely knew what was happening. The general population knew as well, if they were paying attention: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11370972/Holocaust-Memorial-Day-Telegraph-revealed-Nazi-gas-chambers-three-years-before-liberation-of-Auschwitz.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11370972/Ho... > Germans living in nearby towns denied knowledge of it. While it's true that they denied knowing of the existence of extermination camps, it's an idea that has been widely rejected. See for yourself - here's a video of German residents of Weimar being forced to tour Buchenwald after liberation. Do these people looked surprised and mortified to you? https://www.ushmm.org/online/film/display/detail.php?file_num=1923 https://www.ushmm.org/online/film/display/detail.php?file_nu...
- hackuser 10y ago
  Yes, I agree. To be clear, I chose my words carefully: * plausibly denied knowledge on the part of the Allied powers (i.e., their leaders) * denied knowledge on the part of the nearby Germans I agree with you that in truth, both parties likely knew. But today many/most believe that the Allied leaders did not know, and thus the denial is factually 'plausible'. But my point remains: Hitler did not announce the Holocaust to the world, but hid it. Which supports my point that if you wait for the evil-doers to step forward, don a red cape, and announce their evil plans and actions, you will be waiting forever and meanwhile they will manipulate you like a herd of sheep.
- lispm 10y ago
  The large extermination camps were not in Germany, they were outside of Germany, built by Germans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp There were no nearby German towns. Knowledge about them was not that widespread, many jews were brought there not knowing what to expect. Buchenwald was not an 'extermination camp' like Auschwitz-Birkenau. There were many concentration camps in Germany with many people being killed there. Many people knew about the Holocaust and what happened. But the biggest industrialised killing happened outside Germany in these extermination camps (over 3 million victims), and that knowledge was much less widespread. Some of those extermination camps were closed and deconstructed before the end of the war, for example Treblinka and Belzec.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    From what I recall, U.S./UK/French/etc. forces liberated at least several camps, so those would have been in Germany (not France or Benelux, and not on the Eastern Front). Also, they compelled local Germans to tour the camps, so there would have been German towns nearby. On such an important topic, it would be great if you could provide citations beyond Wikipedia (arguably the godfather of 'post-truth' information ...).
    - lispm 10y ago
      Again, extermination camps were not in Germany. Not one. US/french/forces can't have liberated anyone from those extermination camps, since their troops were not there. Only the soviet army reached the extermination camps - those camps who were still there and not closed earlier. Concentration camps were also in Germany. Many. Sure the US/UK/French army liberated people from there. The Wikipedia articles on these topics are actually quite good. Don't spread FUD. https://www.britannica.com/topic/extermination-camp https://www.britannica.com/topic/extermination-camp
      - hackuser 10y ago
        It's sad that our discussion turned ugly; it's usually a good time to move on. EDIT: Edited it.

LyndsySimon 10y ago

> The Holocaust was hidden so effectively from the world that the Allied powers plausibly denied knowledge of it. I don't believe this assertion. The Holocaust was reported in great detail by those fleeing Nazi rule, and the Allied powers absolutely knew what was happening. The general population knew as well, if they were paying attention: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11370972/Holocaust-Memorial-Day-Telegraph-revealed-Nazi-gas-chambers-three-years-before-liberation-of-Auschwitz.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11370972/Ho... > Germans living in nearby towns denied knowledge of it. While it's true that they denied knowing of the existence of extermination camps, it's an idea that has been widely rejected. See for yourself - here's a video of German residents of Weimar being forced to tour Buchenwald after liberation. Do these people looked surprised and mortified to you? https://www.ushmm.org/online/film/display/detail.php?file_num=1923 https://www.ushmm.org/online/film/display/detail.php?file_nu...

hackuser 10y ago
Yes, I agree. To be clear, I chose my words carefully: * plausibly denied knowledge on the part of the Allied powers (i.e., their leaders) * denied knowledge on the part of the nearby Germans I agree with you that in truth, both parties likely knew. But today many/most believe that the Allied leaders did not know, and thus the denial is factually 'plausible'. But my point remains: Hitler did not announce the Holocaust to the world, but hid it. Which supports my point that if you wait for the evil-doers to step forward, don a red cape, and announce their evil plans and actions, you will be waiting forever and meanwhile they will manipulate you like a herd of sheep.
lispm 10y ago
The large extermination camps were not in Germany, they were outside of Germany, built by Germans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp There were no nearby German towns. Knowledge about them was not that widespread, many jews were brought there not knowing what to expect. Buchenwald was not an 'extermination camp' like Auschwitz-Birkenau. There were many concentration camps in Germany with many people being killed there. Many people knew about the Holocaust and what happened. But the biggest industrialised killing happened outside Germany in these extermination camps (over 3 million victims), and that knowledge was much less widespread. Some of those extermination camps were closed and deconstructed before the end of the war, for example Treblinka and Belzec.
- hackuser 10y ago
  From what I recall, U.S./UK/French/etc. forces liberated at least several camps, so those would have been in Germany (not France or Benelux, and not on the Eastern Front). Also, they compelled local Germans to tour the camps, so there would have been German towns nearby. On such an important topic, it would be great if you could provide citations beyond Wikipedia (arguably the godfather of 'post-truth' information ...).
  - lispm 10y ago
    Again, extermination camps were not in Germany. Not one. US/french/forces can't have liberated anyone from those extermination camps, since their troops were not there. Only the soviet army reached the extermination camps - those camps who were still there and not closed earlier. Concentration camps were also in Germany. Many. Sure the US/UK/French army liberated people from there. The Wikipedia articles on these topics are actually quite good. Don't spread FUD. https://www.britannica.com/topic/extermination-camp https://www.britannica.com/topic/extermination-camp
    - hackuser 10y ago
      It's sad that our discussion turned ugly; it's usually a good time to move on. EDIT: Edited it.