7 ms·

CTIA is a post-facto 'standardization' of what used to be known as 'AHJ,' which came about once companies needed a name for 'Apple-compatible' without actually

by stonogo 10y ago

CTIA is a post-facto 'standardization' of what used to be known as 'AHJ,' which came about once companies needed a name for 'Apple-compatible' without actually naming Apple. CTIA is primarily a lobbying organization, and their past hits include laws that made it easier for the US government to surveil email and an attempt to get the US government to shut off TV broadcasting entirely. OMTP was an actual standard from a real-life standards body -- the same one that brought us micro-USB across all non-Apple phones. We lost functionality when we lost OMTP; imagine a world where you had dedicated buttons for track forward and back. Having been involved in the design phase of devices that supported each standard, I miss OMTP.

comex 10y ago
> We lost functionality when we lost OMTP; imagine a world where you had dedicated buttons for track forward and back. There's one argument, albeit small, for killing the headphone jack. USB HID has included track control keycodes since forever, so USB earphones should be able to control playback by appearing as a HID device... I think... Of course, there too Apple is off doing their own thing with Lightning.
- stonogo 10y ago
  You can indeed -- and Nokia was producing such devices in the mid-2000s. There are even some models of Nokia phone that did not have a headphone jack; they had a micro-USB port that was used for both charging the phone and attaching headphones. Sound familiar? The peak of that approach was the Nokia WH-501, which consisted of a micro-USB connector at one end and a clip on the other, which had several audio controls. IIRC: volume up/down, call answer/hangup, mute toggle, track forward, and track back. It came with a regular set of 3.5mm earbuds, but of course you could use whatever headset you wanted, as the mic was built into the clip. At the time I remember someone had written a linux driver for this device, which worked quite well. So, ten years ago, we had a cross-platform standards-based headset with audio controls and reconfigurable earpieces. Like I said, a lot has been lost in the recent past.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    From an European point of view, the mobile world was set back a decade (if not more) by the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry. This in large part because they built products for the US market, and it was lagging the rest of the world massively.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      It’s not just the phone market. Almost always when a US company enters a global market, it leads to a massive setback for the rest of the world. Think about credit cards – Europe has been slowly migrating to VISA and MasterCards with their insane fees, away from the old EuroCheque and EC Card system (which had lower fees, and better safety). At the same time, every German company in the EU leads to worse results for the countries that are yet even more advanced, say, the Netherlands (Net Neutrality comes to mind).
      - rocqua 10y ago
        As a dutchman, I kinda envy Germany. I feel they handle quite a few things better. Regarding net-neutrality, T-mobile is currently actively zero-rating music in the Netherlands.
        kuschku 10y ago
        > T-mobile is currently actively zero-rating music in the Netherlands. Which was banned in the Netherlands until the recent EU-wide Net Neutrality law, which improved Net Neutrality in 27 EU countries, but made it slightly worse in the Netherlands. (It allows Zero-Rating).
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >From an European point of view, the mobile world was set back a decade (if not more) by the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry As a European I couldn't disagree more. Have you see the crap (including Nokia and Sony) that passed for smartphones before the iPhone and Android devices came along? You also make it sound like some big conspiracy for "the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry". If there was that much better European mobiles where were/are they hidden? That some standards (like the above for headphones) existed and were lost, I can accept. But nothing much else...
- NTripleOne 10y ago
  Except you don't need to kill the headphone jack to provide that.
- new299 10y ago
  I'd guess that probably works if you attach headphones via the lightening->USB host interface. USB Audio devices certainly work, and wired keyboards work.
nl 10y ago
imagine a world where you had dedicated buttons for track forward and back This is standardized in Bluetooth headphones (although I'm not sure what Apple has done with their new AirBuds or whatever they are called).
- throwanem 10y ago
  AirPods, and as far as I know they don't support direct volume control; they certainly have no buttons, and much has been made of the claim that they only offer volume control via Siri. On the other hand, a cheap Bluetooth media playback remote works fine, and a decent one can run for months on a coin cell. I've been using one with a variety of Bluetooth earbuds during my commute, since that'a a lot more convenient than digging out my phone when I'm bundled up for winter temperatures. At this point I wouldn't even want wireless earbuds with a wired control. What would be the point?
  - nl 10y ago
    Why do you need a separate bluetooth remote? All my bluetooth headphones (3x bud types from different manufactures and one on-ear set) have remotes built into them.
    - jon-wood 10y ago
      Sony have a range of what are essentially Bluetooth 3.5mm jack's with some controls and a small display on them. They come with some headphones but will also work with anything else. They're fantastic, my only qualm is that I'm forever losing them!
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Because I'm wearing a balaclava, a beanie, a coat hood, and gloves. Poking at tiny buttons on a thing that's in my earhole isn't really on the menu.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >a balaclava, a beanie, a coat hood, and gloves I think parent asked why the average person needs them, not about why outliers in the arctic circle would.

by stonogo 10y ago

comex 10y ago

> We lost functionality when we lost OMTP; imagine a world where you had dedicated buttons for track forward and back. There's one argument, albeit small, for killing the headphone jack. USB HID has included track control keycodes since forever, so USB earphones should be able to control playback by appearing as a HID device... I think... Of course, there too Apple is off doing their own thing with Lightning.

stonogo 10y ago
You can indeed -- and Nokia was producing such devices in the mid-2000s. There are even some models of Nokia phone that did not have a headphone jack; they had a micro-USB port that was used for both charging the phone and attaching headphones. Sound familiar? The peak of that approach was the Nokia WH-501, which consisted of a micro-USB connector at one end and a clip on the other, which had several audio controls. IIRC: volume up/down, call answer/hangup, mute toggle, track forward, and track back. It came with a regular set of 3.5mm earbuds, but of course you could use whatever headset you wanted, as the mic was built into the clip. At the time I remember someone had written a linux driver for this device, which worked quite well. So, ten years ago, we had a cross-platform standards-based headset with audio controls and reconfigurable earpieces. Like I said, a lot has been lost in the recent past.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  From an European point of view, the mobile world was set back a decade (if not more) by the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry. This in large part because they built products for the US market, and it was lagging the rest of the world massively.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    It’s not just the phone market. Almost always when a US company enters a global market, it leads to a massive setback for the rest of the world. Think about credit cards – Europe has been slowly migrating to VISA and MasterCards with their insane fees, away from the old EuroCheque and EC Card system (which had lower fees, and better safety). At the same time, every German company in the EU leads to worse results for the countries that are yet even more advanced, say, the Netherlands (Net Neutrality comes to mind).
    - rocqua 10y ago
      As a dutchman, I kinda envy Germany. I feel they handle quite a few things better. Regarding net-neutrality, T-mobile is currently actively zero-rating music in the Netherlands.
      - kuschku 10y ago
        > T-mobile is currently actively zero-rating music in the Netherlands. Which was banned in the Netherlands until the recent EU-wide Net Neutrality law, which improved Net Neutrality in 27 EU countries, but made it slightly worse in the Netherlands. (It allows Zero-Rating).
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >From an European point of view, the mobile world was set back a decade (if not more) by the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry As a European I couldn't disagree more. Have you see the crap (including Nokia and Sony) that passed for smartphones before the iPhone and Android devices came along? You also make it sound like some big conspiracy for "the tech media's fawning over Apple and Google's entry". If there was that much better European mobiles where were/are they hidden? That some standards (like the above for headphones) existed and were lost, I can accept. But nothing much else...
NTripleOne 10y ago
Except you don't need to kill the headphone jack to provide that.
new299 10y ago
I'd guess that probably works if you attach headphones via the lightening->USB host interface. USB Audio devices certainly work, and wired keyboards work.

nl 10y ago

imagine a world where you had dedicated buttons for track forward and back This is standardized in Bluetooth headphones (although I'm not sure what Apple has done with their new AirBuds or whatever they are called).

throwanem 10y ago
AirPods, and as far as I know they don't support direct volume control; they certainly have no buttons, and much has been made of the claim that they only offer volume control via Siri. On the other hand, a cheap Bluetooth media playback remote works fine, and a decent one can run for months on a coin cell. I've been using one with a variety of Bluetooth earbuds during my commute, since that'a a lot more convenient than digging out my phone when I'm bundled up for winter temperatures. At this point I wouldn't even want wireless earbuds with a wired control. What would be the point?
- nl 10y ago
  Why do you need a separate bluetooth remote? All my bluetooth headphones (3x bud types from different manufactures and one on-ear set) have remotes built into them.
  - jon-wood 10y ago
    Sony have a range of what are essentially Bluetooth 3.5mm jack's with some controls and a small display on them. They come with some headphones but will also work with anything else. They're fantastic, my only qualm is that I'm forever losing them!
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Because I'm wearing a balaclava, a beanie, a coat hood, and gloves. Poking at tiny buttons on a thing that's in my earhole isn't really on the menu.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >a balaclava, a beanie, a coat hood, and gloves I think parent asked why the average person needs them, not about why outliers in the arctic circle would.