4 ms·

Would you care to provide a short rust implementation of reading an arbitrary length string from standard input? I have rust installed. I would be curious to b

Would you care to provide a short rust implementation of reading an arbitrary length string from standard input? I have rust installed. I would be curious to benchmark it and see if is indeed faster than the same thing in C, using a user-defined bounds checked array.

_sh 10y ago
It's not so much a question of benchmarks, it's that one of the standard C tools for reading an arbitrary string from standard input is gets(). And if you reach for that from the standard toolbox, you've failed before you've started.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  Many rust advocates talk about the performance cost of doing things safely in C, and inform me that rust has "Zero-cost abstractions". So it's fairly natural I ask for something I can benchmark.
  - tjr 10y ago
    Having used C (on and off) for about twenty years, including writing aerospace software in C, I strongly agree that writing safe C is possible. Rust (which I have thus far only tinkered with) looks pretty appealing to me, though. Do you suggest using C instead of Rust? If so, why?
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      Rust (which I have thus far only tinkered with) looks pretty appealing to me, though. Do you suggest using C instead of Rust? If so, why? I'd probably suggest a higher level language if you can get away with it (portability, performance, etc), but I am not really advocating for using one language over another here.. What I am advocating is writing a thin layer of abstraction to avoid buffer overflows in the already extant code base. I suspect it would be a better choice in terms of cost/benefit than re-writing the code.
    - dreta 10y ago
      If Rust solves the kinds of problems you have, then by all means use it. I don't think there exists a language that's in all aspects better than any other. For me personally, C is the language that gets in my way the least without forcing me to write ASM, and that happens to be highest on my list. If there was a language with the same idea of minimalism behind it as C, but with all the quirks and bad syntax choices out, i'd switch in a heartbeat.
  - caconym_ 10y ago
    > Many rust advocates talk about the performance cost of doing things safely in C Who's saying this? It doesn't really make sense, taken out of context as it is here. > inform me that rust has "Zero-cost abstractions" IMO at best the array bounds checking thing is an extremely poor example of a "zero-cost abstraction"; at worst it's not an example of it at all. As I understand it, the term refers to things like static dispatch on closures and trait methods, iterator fusion, and generally any place where the compiler can transform high level abstractions into really efficient low-level code where in other languages/implementations you might incur a performance penalty, for instance by dynamic dispatch to heap-allocated closures, or allocation of an intermediate vector at every "link" in an iterator method chain.
- caf 10y ago
  gets() isn't part of the C standard anymore (it was entirely removed in C11, and prior to that was marked "obsolescent and deprecated" 18 years ago in C99).
staticassertion 10y ago
I didn't claim that rust would be faster than C (not that it can't be) in that situation. I would expect very similar performance. I'm not feeling very well unfortunately, not really in the mood to code.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  I just keep hearing about how rust handles safe bounds checked arrays with (and I quote) "Zero-cost abstractions", which to me implied it would be faster than C, since C pays some performance penalty by branching. Hope you feel better soon.
  - wmf 10y ago
    "Zero-cost abstraction" really means zero additional cost beyond what is required. So Rust still pays a cost for bounds checking, but it's the same cost as if you optimally hand-coded the bounds check in C.
    - pekk 10y ago
      Adding the cost of bounds checking is not actually "zero cost" relative to a C default of not bounds checking. There's really no reason to speak in this misleading way except marketing. Of course, bounds checking is worth paying a cost! As are many other common foot-guns like remembering to free memory. Which starts to raise the issue of when it would actually be necessary to reach for Rust instead of (arbitrary example) Java. Because a language with enforced bounds checking is not really the same kind of thing as C, and we've already had languages that are safer than C for decades.
  - staticassertion 10y ago
    Ah, I see. For what it's worth C will perform similar optimizations to Rust, which is why I expect similar performance. And thank you.
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    "Zero cost abstraction" means that the abstraction doesn't impose an additional cost. It is the same cost of branching that C will have, modulo optimizations. (Languages with dependent types can help move bounds checks to compile time, but Rust does not have those)
steveklabnik 10y ago
I'm not going to make any performance claims, but in the interest of sample code, https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/io/struct.Stdin.html#method.read_line https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/io/struct.Stdin.html#me... has a very small program that does this in the most straightforward way. (You'll have to wrap it in `fn main()`, we don't show that in examples in the docs) If you want a true speed comparison, you'd have to define more than just "read an arbitrary string". For example, encoding requirements. Your C is going to treat it as just a bag of bytes, and you can do that in Rust too, but it's not the most natural way; you'd convert to UTF-8, which isn't free. Stuff like that.
rnestler 10y ago
Did you mean something like this? use std::io::{self, Read}; fn main() { let stdin = io::stdin(); let mut data = vec![]; stdin.lock().read_to_end(&mut data) .expect("Reading stdin failed"); }
- dbaupp 10y ago
  (FWIW, You could golf that to io::stdin().read_to_end(...), because the Read implementation for Stdin does the same locking internally: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/8f62c2920077eb5cb81323142fc5dbe6ae8813c0/src/libstd/io/stdio.rs#L298 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/8f62c2920077eb5cb8132... .)

_sh 10y ago

It's not so much a question of benchmarks, it's that one of the standard C tools for reading an arbitrary string from standard input is gets(). And if you reach for that from the standard toolbox, you've failed before you've started.

lacampbell 10y ago
Many rust advocates talk about the performance cost of doing things safely in C, and inform me that rust has "Zero-cost abstractions". So it's fairly natural I ask for something I can benchmark.
- tjr 10y ago
  Having used C (on and off) for about twenty years, including writing aerospace software in C, I strongly agree that writing safe C is possible. Rust (which I have thus far only tinkered with) looks pretty appealing to me, though. Do you suggest using C instead of Rust? If so, why?
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Rust (which I have thus far only tinkered with) looks pretty appealing to me, though. Do you suggest using C instead of Rust? If so, why? I'd probably suggest a higher level language if you can get away with it (portability, performance, etc), but I am not really advocating for using one language over another here.. What I am advocating is writing a thin layer of abstraction to avoid buffer overflows in the already extant code base. I suspect it would be a better choice in terms of cost/benefit than re-writing the code.
  - dreta 10y ago
    If Rust solves the kinds of problems you have, then by all means use it. I don't think there exists a language that's in all aspects better than any other. For me personally, C is the language that gets in my way the least without forcing me to write ASM, and that happens to be highest on my list. If there was a language with the same idea of minimalism behind it as C, but with all the quirks and bad syntax choices out, i'd switch in a heartbeat.
- caconym_ 10y ago
  > Many rust advocates talk about the performance cost of doing things safely in C Who's saying this? It doesn't really make sense, taken out of context as it is here. > inform me that rust has "Zero-cost abstractions" IMO at best the array bounds checking thing is an extremely poor example of a "zero-cost abstraction"; at worst it's not an example of it at all. As I understand it, the term refers to things like static dispatch on closures and trait methods, iterator fusion, and generally any place where the compiler can transform high level abstractions into really efficient low-level code where in other languages/implementations you might incur a performance penalty, for instance by dynamic dispatch to heap-allocated closures, or allocation of an intermediate vector at every "link" in an iterator method chain.
caf 10y ago
gets() isn't part of the C standard anymore (it was entirely removed in C11, and prior to that was marked "obsolescent and deprecated" 18 years ago in C99).

staticassertion 10y ago

I didn't claim that rust would be faster than C (not that it can't be) in that situation. I would expect very similar performance. I'm not feeling very well unfortunately, not really in the mood to code.

lacampbell 10y ago
I just keep hearing about how rust handles safe bounds checked arrays with (and I quote) "Zero-cost abstractions", which to me implied it would be faster than C, since C pays some performance penalty by branching. Hope you feel better soon.
- wmf 10y ago
  "Zero-cost abstraction" really means zero additional cost beyond what is required. So Rust still pays a cost for bounds checking, but it's the same cost as if you optimally hand-coded the bounds check in C.
  - pekk 10y ago
    Adding the cost of bounds checking is not actually "zero cost" relative to a C default of not bounds checking. There's really no reason to speak in this misleading way except marketing. Of course, bounds checking is worth paying a cost! As are many other common foot-guns like remembering to free memory. Which starts to raise the issue of when it would actually be necessary to reach for Rust instead of (arbitrary example) Java. Because a language with enforced bounds checking is not really the same kind of thing as C, and we've already had languages that are safer than C for decades.
- staticassertion 10y ago
  Ah, I see. For what it's worth C will perform similar optimizations to Rust, which is why I expect similar performance. And thank you.
- Manishearth 10y ago
  "Zero cost abstraction" means that the abstraction doesn't impose an additional cost. It is the same cost of branching that C will have, modulo optimizations. (Languages with dependent types can help move bounds checks to compile time, but Rust does not have those)

steveklabnik 10y ago

I'm not going to make any performance claims, but in the interest of sample code, https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/io/struct.Stdin.html#method.read_line https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/io/struct.Stdin.html#me... has a very small program that does this in the most straightforward way. (You'll have to wrap it in `fn main()`, we don't show that in examples in the docs) If you want a true speed comparison, you'd have to define more than just "read an arbitrary string". For example, encoding requirements. Your C is going to treat it as just a bag of bytes, and you can do that in Rust too, but it's not the most natural way; you'd convert to UTF-8, which isn't free. Stuff like that.

rnestler 10y ago

Did you mean something like this? use std::io::{self, Read}; fn main() { let stdin = io::stdin(); let mut data = vec![]; stdin.lock().read_to_end(&mut data) .expect("Reading stdin failed"); }

dbaupp 10y ago
(FWIW, You could golf that to io::stdin().read_to_end(...), because the Read implementation for Stdin does the same locking internally: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/8f62c2920077eb5cb81323142fc5dbe6ae8813c0/src/libstd/io/stdio.rs#L298 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/8f62c2920077eb5cb8132... .)