2 ms·

I'm not sure how this one slipped under the radar then? Sounds like you might have an idea? Also, describing the NYT in such a manner is an "appeal to authorit

I'm not sure how this one slipped under the radar then? Sounds like you might have an idea? Also, describing the NYT in such a manner is an "appeal to authority."

grzm 10y ago
I disagree with the contention that the Pearl Automation article is a paid post or "obviously paid content marketing material". It reads more casually, more like long-form journalism than a straight up article, but not like paid content. Prior to this comment, I don't see where I'm arguing anything other than clarifying a difference between the Cole Haan paid post and the Pearl Automation article and that a larger organization needs more process to efficiently produce content at scale, neither of which I think is particularly contentious. Neither of which I see requires or is an appeal to authority. If you think otherwise, please feel free to point out where.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Do you agree with @harryh that the article is marketing material? Also, @achompas's sibling post was the appeal to authority, not yours, sorry for the confusion.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Do you agree with @harryh that the article is marketing material? I don't know what answer you're looking for beyond what I've just expressed above: I disagree with the contention that the Pearl Automation article is a paid post or "obviously paid content marketing material". If you consider good press to be marketing material, then yes, but I don't think this is an proper understanding of "marketing material". Or is it the idea it wasn't paid for? Even then, I don't think this article is the result of anything unethical, which I understand the label "marketing material" to imply. If you know of actual evidence that indicates such, I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
  - achompas 10y ago
    I'm baffled as to how my comments can be read as appeals to authority. A brief Google search surfaces clear comments by the NYT itself on its native ad policy. I also think you're suffering from the conflation of marketing and advertising material.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I believe 'Hydraulix989 is interpreting the following as such: [T]he NYT is a traditional institution with strong publishing process and serious concern for "separation of church and state, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13313026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13313026 I think they're saying that they can't be trusted to be honest about their own intent. I'm not sure if that's actually an fallacious appeal to authority, as I think that entails referencing some unqualified third party, but I may very well be mistaken. Regardless, if 'Hydraulix989 doesn't trust the NYT, I can't imagine anything short of an audit by a trusted third-party would be convincing on this issue. To be fair, I would only be convinced that the Pearl Automation article is a marketing piece if there were some concrete evidence of unethical behavior along these lines.
      - achompas 10y ago
        Ah, I get you. I could understand that if, say, someone had not read comments from the NYT's public editor. One example: http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/as-print-fades-part-4-native-advertising-on-the-rise/?_r=0 http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/as-print-fa...
        grzm 10y ago
        Thanks for the link! I fear that in today's polarized environment, distrust of the media, and the serious missteps made by the NYT in recent years, the fact that the public editor is a NYT employee and published in the NYT would make them untrustworthy to a great many people. And that seems to often taint those who would give them the benefit of the doubt. And I don't see this as an issue that's unique to any one political persuasion. The level of automatic distrust if not suspicion of bad intent all around greatly concerns me. I find myself actively and repeatedly checking myself to extend the benefit of the doubt and charity. We're increasingly and alarmingly encouraged to view things in a binary fashion, bucketing everyone into one or the other, rather than recognizing there's a wide range of values on all different issues, and that we share many even when we disagree on others. </soapbox>

I'm not sure how this one slipped under the radar then? Sounds like you might have an idea? Also, describing the NYT in such a manner is an "appeal to authority."

grzm 10y ago

I disagree with the contention that the Pearl Automation article is a paid post or "obviously paid content marketing material". It reads more casually, more like long-form journalism than a straight up article, but not like paid content. Prior to this comment, I don't see where I'm arguing anything other than clarifying a difference between the Cole Haan paid post and the Pearl Automation article and that a larger organization needs more process to efficiently produce content at scale, neither of which I think is particularly contentious. Neither of which I see requires or is an appeal to authority. If you think otherwise, please feel free to point out where.

Hydraulix989 10y ago
Do you agree with @harryh that the article is marketing material? Also, @achompas's sibling post was the appeal to authority, not yours, sorry for the confusion.
- grzm 10y ago
  Do you agree with @harryh that the article is marketing material? I don't know what answer you're looking for beyond what I've just expressed above: I disagree with the contention that the Pearl Automation article is a paid post or "obviously paid content marketing material". If you consider good press to be marketing material, then yes, but I don't think this is an proper understanding of "marketing material". Or is it the idea it wasn't paid for? Even then, I don't think this article is the result of anything unethical, which I understand the label "marketing material" to imply. If you know of actual evidence that indicates such, I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
- achompas 10y ago
  I'm baffled as to how my comments can be read as appeals to authority. A brief Google search surfaces clear comments by the NYT itself on its native ad policy. I also think you're suffering from the conflation of marketing and advertising material.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I believe 'Hydraulix989 is interpreting the following as such: [T]he NYT is a traditional institution with strong publishing process and serious concern for "separation of church and state, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13313026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13313026 I think they're saying that they can't be trusted to be honest about their own intent. I'm not sure if that's actually an fallacious appeal to authority, as I think that entails referencing some unqualified third party, but I may very well be mistaken. Regardless, if 'Hydraulix989 doesn't trust the NYT, I can't imagine anything short of an audit by a trusted third-party would be convincing on this issue. To be fair, I would only be convinced that the Pearl Automation article is a marketing piece if there were some concrete evidence of unethical behavior along these lines.
    - achompas 10y ago
      Ah, I get you. I could understand that if, say, someone had not read comments from the NYT's public editor. One example: http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/as-print-fades-part-4-native-advertising-on-the-rise/?_r=0 http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/as-print-fa...
      - grzm 10y ago
        Thanks for the link! I fear that in today's polarized environment, distrust of the media, and the serious missteps made by the NYT in recent years, the fact that the public editor is a NYT employee and published in the NYT would make them untrustworthy to a great many people. And that seems to often taint those who would give them the benefit of the doubt. And I don't see this as an issue that's unique to any one political persuasion. The level of automatic distrust if not suspicion of bad intent all around greatly concerns me. I find myself actively and repeatedly checking myself to extend the benefit of the doubt and charity. We're increasingly and alarmingly encouraged to view things in a binary fashion, bucketing everyone into one or the other, rather than recognizing there's a wide range of values on all different issues, and that we share many even when we disagree on others. </soapbox>